Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck Posted by ABCRONNIE - 15 Jul :45

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

Posted by ABCRONNIE - 15 Jul 2012 08:45 _____________________________________

Hi all,

Well I have just completed my friends music video. All recorded to SSD on the HyperDeck Shuttle V2 using DNxHD as the compression codec. Using the SSD dock built into the Thermal Take computer case housing my system, I transferred the media to the raid and then using 'Create Link' LW V11 Pro saw the media with no issues at all Yeah !!!!.

I should point out here that yes I edited the clip on LW Pro V11 and also Colour Corrected and stylised the whole thing using LW. The DOP is an experienced lighting DOP so the images were just beautiful to start with so any adjustment I made was simply to match shot to shot cuts.

The music video complete, I exported it back to another SSD handed to my friend who not only now has a copy of his original media but also a broadcast quality finished music video ready for TX on Rage. (An all night music video program on ABCTV Australia every Friday & Saturday 11.00pm to 6.00am)

Excuse the gratuitous plug. lol

This has got to be the best workflow ever, no transcoding, no waiting, and smooth and trouble free playback of the files, yep I'm sold.

It took 3 minutes to transfer the contents to my raid and wasn't even enough time to make coffee...

@Forum Admin,

Yes it is the future of workflows and LW, and I suspect just about every other NLE out there capable of handling

Uncompressed 10-bit QuickTime Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) QuickTime Avid DNxHD 220 Mb/s QuickTime Avid DNxHD 220 Mb/s MXF

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Clients are going to love this, and Editors using LW Pro are certainly in for a treat. Well done to LW for making this possible.

I would also suggest to all prospective up and coming Editors to seriously consider purchasing the Pro licence and the DNxHD codec (One off lifetime payment).

As noted by nepule simply brilliant....

Cheers Ronnie

Edit -: @Forum Admin

My bad for starting this new thread didn't mean that to happen. Can you please put this post into the existing thread " Blackmagic Hyperdeck "

Apologies

Cheers

Ronnie

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

Posted by Forum Admin - 03 Aug 2012 16:43 _____________________________________

DNxHD and ProRes are extremely competent codecs. In their higher bitrate variants, they're visually lossless - in other words they're visually identical to uncompressed.

I'd use the compressed versions any day, unless I was working on a really high-budget feature, where I

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could afford the fast storage systems and the six-times capacity vs ProRes and DNxHD.

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

Posted by ozsteam - 03 Aug 2012 20:39 _____________________________________

Even DNxHD 'Proxy' is remarkably good. For super fast, low or no budget educational videos destined for Vimeo, Youtube or mobile phone and edited on low spec laptops, it too has it's place.

PS: When I read the specs of the original Shuttle in HD Magazine six months ago I thought, "Wow record to removable SSD! What a great idea, why doesn't someone make a camera that does

that?" Well, they have and now here's our ABCRonnie singing it's praises from the ultra conservative world of broadcast television!

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

Posted by jwrl - 04 Aug 2012 05:49

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ozsteam wrote:

Even DNxHD 'Proxy' is remarkably good. For super fast, low or no budget educational videos destined for Vimeo, Youtube or mobile phone and edited on low spec laptops, it too has it's place.

PS: When I read the specs of the original Shuttle in HD Magazine six months ago I thought, "Wow record to removable SSD! What a great idea, why doesn't someone make a camera that does

that?" Well, they have and now here's our ABCRonnie singing it's praises from the ultra conservative world of broadcast television!

Of course in our neck of the woods (Australia) broadcast TV is by means of highly compressed 8-bit streams. It makes any questions regarding the value of DNxHD/ProRes vs. uncompressed seem a little pointless, in my opinion.

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

Posted by sotitomo - 04 Aug 2012 07:11 _____________________________________

Forum Admin wrote:

DNxHD and ProRes are extremely competent codecs. In their higher bitrate variants, they're visually

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lossless - in other words they're visually identical to uncompressed.

I'd use the compressed versions any day, unless I was working on a really high-budget feature, where I could afford the fast storage systems and the six-times capacity vs ProRes and DNxHD.

Thanks. Any words about LW V11 working with the uncompressed 10bit 4:2:2 Quicktime files recorded by the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle?

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

I don't know. We would need someone to try this.

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

Posted by jacquestoo - 04 Aug 2012 15:22 _____________________________________

Administrator: SSD and 10-bit are the thing of the future. Sooner or later, but rather sooner than later, they're going to affect us all. If you don't test it in-house, that's a perfectly good opportunity missed to do something proactivelly. Act now, and break this reactionary complaint-response cycle. J.

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

Ronnie, again thank you very much for sharing with us mortals! Ronnie, I have yet another, only marginally related question, but as we already touched on the subject of processors and processor suitability, I won't start a new thread. Question: When running them on your laptop, how does LW compare to Edius 6.X? On my own laptop, i7 820, 1 GB Radeon graphics card, 8 megs RAM, from the same manufacturer as yours, but branded Dell XPS, LW v. 11.01 causes all sorts of grief. It cuts off long clips at about 6 to 8 minutes, runs generally slow, viewer freezes and all sorts of associated aggravating stuff. I have Edius 6.0X installed on the same boot drive. Edius performs beautifully. The C drive is strictly boot. I use two external HDs @ 7,200 RPMs. The files are ProRes and/or Cineform. Haven't gotten DNxHD for tha laptop, as I only use it a few weeks a year.

When on the road, I use Edius. That's for its simplicity and because it will ingest anything you'll throw at it. As you know, it's lacking in some areas and that's why I would favour LW. As far as the laptop goes

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my question is more or less academic, but it bugs me that I don't really have the LW option on it - regardless whether I use it or not.

I essentially wonder if my CPU is too lame, or if there's a problem with the graphics card. And, do you know whether a graphics card in a laptop can be changed/upgraded? Have a nice weekend, everybody!

J.

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck

jacquestoo wrote:

Administrator: SSD and 10-bit are the thing of the future. Sooner or later, but rather sooner than later, they're going to affect us all. If you don't test it in-house, that's a perfectly good opportunity missed to do something proactivelly. Act now, and break this reactionary complaint-response cycle. J.

Well, we're pretty proactive, actually, but focused as well, on bringing out the new versions. We don't have armies of employees testing every new piece of kit. Feedback on these is always good. Don't forget that SSDs are an immature technology - yes they are the future, but I used to work for one of the Field Recorder companies that were pioneering the use of SSD with HDMI, HDSDI, ProRes and DNxHD, so I have a bit of experience here. SSDs are NOT all equal.

I'm sure things will improve rapidly though.

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Re: Lightworks V Edius

Posted by ABCRONNIE - 04 Aug 2012 19:18 _____________________________________

Hi jacquestoo

I use external drives which are USB 3.0 as the the ports on my Laptop are USB 3.0. The drives I use are Seagate Sata III drives in pairs. That is, the external is set up as a raid 0 with two seagates in each.

The drives are 10K Rpm drives and it has a marked effect of using both Edius & Lightworks on my Laptop. If for exmple you switch to a standard USB 2.0 drive, then both applications are sluggish.

This of course depends on what files you are trying to manipulate. HD 1920x1080 XDCam files just don't cut it for speed IMHO if you are not using fast drives connected to a high speed port. E-Sata is another option.

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Edius uses highly efficient codecs such as HQ & HQX which results in a smoother playback of HD Images but it will slow down if the hardware is not up to it. Setting up buffers and projects correctly is the key here. I generally use HQX to provide TAW 4 with the necessary files to burn Blue-ray discs on location for example.

Lightworks handles 2 streams of full HD along with Keyed bottom of frame supers, & transitions including 8 Audio tracks. Some projects will also include VFX and Colour Correction. This is where Lightworks can slow down particularly if you have a lot of Colour Correction. Best advice here is to render the results and again this is where hardware up to the task is important. AFAIK Lightworks hands all image processing to the graphics card GPU so an under specced graphics card will cause freezing &

jerky playback.

However, I have to export the file to TMPGenc Video Mastering 5 to burn a Blue-ray disc. Playing

Lightworks timelines is flawless on my laptop probably because there are no bottlenecks in terms of data throughput.

There is some discussion regarding the 10bit v 8bit pathways in Edius, but certain aspects such as the Layouter and CC can be performed on files at full 10 bit.

Your question regarding whether your laptop is up to the task, I have had Lightworks running on much lower specced machines and it works well, but having the hardware to support the file types and data transfer rates is most important. Pro-Res and Cineform files are not taxing on Lightworks at all but Jaquestoo I don't edit long lengths of material. Most of the files I deal with are batch captured with in and out points so as to just take in the amount of the file I need as opposed to huge files being resident on the system. I would imagine with long files, buffer underun etc may occur on slower systems. My shots can last from say 1 minute for a PTC (Piece to camera) to individual shots for overlay from 2 to 10 seconds. Habit really,

but the idea of just ingesting long lengths of video that I probably won't use is well just a waste of time imho

I would think that graphics cards can be replaced although Dell may not offer this on some of their models as they seem to team up components pretty well.

Perhaps just to make things easier on your Laptop running light works, I would suggest culling the length of the files if you just don't need them.

Cheers

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Ronnie

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Re: Lightworks V Edius

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OK, comparisons seem to be in order in this thread. Ronnie, how do you think Symphony/Media Composer compares with the other two (LW/Edius)?

Of course this can't take in to account the vast price differential between Symphony and LW... roughly

$6,000 currently, compared to how much for Lightworks?

(This is a serious question, Ronnie, despite the jokey piece in the para above.)

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck with NLE's

Posted by ABCRONNIE - 05 Aug 2012 02:02 _____________________________________

jwrl wrote:

OK, comparisons seem to be in order in this thread. Ronnie, how do you think Symphony/Media Composer compares with the other two (LW/Edius)?

Of course this can't take in to account the vast price differential between Symphony and LW... roughly

$6,000 currently, compared to how much for Lightworks?

(This is a serious question, Ronnie, despite the jokey piece in the para above.)

Hi Jwrl,

A soon as I had responded I thought have I just stepped into the comparison quiz.

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The simple response here is use what will do the job. Be it LWKS,EDIUS,MC/Symphony/FCP/Smoke along with what you are most comfortable using. Remember editors spend lots of time alone in dark rooms looking through vision so the better the match to software the more enjoyable the experience.

As an owner/user of Media Composer and Symphony 6 on a machine I built to Avid Specifications and above,

I have nothing but admiration for their software. It integrates into my workflow seamlessly but again the machine it is running on was purpose designed

and so I would expect nothing less.

Jwrl has also made mention the price difference. Absolutely correct

I feel Symphony has the edge for Primary & Secondary Colour Correction, Avid Visual FX combined with Boris Continuum Complete make for an excellent alternative to After Effects. I use Twixtor & Re-visions Blur Plugins as well and the results are startling on Symphony. I have this setup with its own RAID as I use this system for more longer term Projects/Series.

With the above in mind, I find the Avid interface well laid out and switching focus within the application is great. The cost of this system is probably the main detractor but it is capable of much more than just editing.

Lightworks in my workflow would be used more for Daily Projects where the emphasis is on the cut rather than "can we kinda do some effects on this" It is a doddle to edit on, uncluttered and straight to the point. It is stable on my Laptop allows me to take projects to clients & review/re-edit there and then at their location.

I know this sounds weird but I have even taken a program I cut on LW way back in the beta days that Lawyers needed to see before hand. So portability is key here.

The two main codecs I use are ProRes and DNxHD so all my systems incl Edius must be able to use these file types along with any others that comes along. This is where Edius is in class of its own. As stated by Jacquestoo it will play just about any file you attempt. This is extremely handy when a client comes in with his/her special memories..you know what I mean, its in that special format nothing will play...and you must be able to accommodate it somehow Edius will do it.... usually.

So I think i may be the wrong person to ask for comparisons in NLE's as I love using every one of them.

They all achieve the same result ultimately and they are like humans really...quirky I mean

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Cheers

Ronnie

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck with NLE's

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ABCRONNIE wrote:

I think i may be the wrong person to ask for comparisons in NLE's as I love using every one of them.

Arguably, in my book, that makes you exactly the right person to ask. Thanks for the post.

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck with NLE's

Hey guys, Ronnie and jwrl. I've seldom enjoyed watching a techno-philosophical discussion more than your present one. Don't believe everything you think (from the musings of the great Jacquestoo) Remember what you told me three months ago, jwrl? You told me to use whatever tools work for my purposes. I didn't forget. And thanks for all the input, everybody. J.

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Re: Blackmagic Hyperdeck with NLE's

I would like to refer the Edius 6.5/LW 11.01 incompatibility in the presence of the Phenom II-6 1090T processor to the BUGS section. I fully concur and agree with ABCRonnie on the cause(s). J.

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