Problems with the Pre-Tribulation Rapture
1) Imminency
“The New Testament uses many different terms in various passages teaching that Christ could come at any-moment. Some Bible teachers use the English word "imminency" to encompass the biblical teaching of this truth. Imminency means that other things may happen before the imminent event, but nothing else must take place before it happens. Therefore, the idea of "soon coming" is to be
distinguished from "imminency." If one is coming soon then they would be required to come by a certain time. Imminency means that one could come soon, but a soon coming is not necessary. Thus, only Pretribulationalism teaches a truly imminent Rapture (consistent with the New Testament) since it is the only view not requiring anything to happen before the Rapture. Imminency strongly argues for the Pre-Trib position.” (The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine While Standing On One Foot, Dr. Tommy Ice)
There is no such word as “imminent” in the Scriptures. Quite the contrary, we have been given conditions which must be met before the ‘rapture’ can occur:
2 Thessalonians 2:1—“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together(a) unto him, 2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except [1]there come a falling away first, and [2]that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
(a) Gathering Together = episunagoge. Used in Hebrews 10:25 as a commandment against forsaking the “gathering of ourselves together”. Commonly used by Pre-Tribulationist pastors as a commandment to the Church.
Luke 21:7—“And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?(b) 8) And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. 9) But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by…”
(b) There are signs which must come to pass before His coming, otherwise He would have simply said so.
2) Distinction between Israel and the church
“The final foundational essential for the Pre-Trib Rapture is the biblical understanding that God's single program for history includes two peoples, Israel and the church. This view is often known as dispensationalism. While the basis of salvation is always the same for Jew and Gentile, this does not mean that God's prophetic program does not have two aspects to it. God's plan for Israel is on hold until He completes His current purpose with the church and Raptures His Bride to heaven. After the Rapture, God will then complete His unfinished business with Israel during the seven-year
Tribulation period. Therefore, if one does not distinguish between passages which God intends for Israel from those intended for the church, then there results an improper merging of the two
programs. Such a merger cannot support the Pre-Trib Rapture since the Bible teaches that the church and Israel have in many ways different programs within the plan of God.” (The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine While Standing On One Foot, Dr. Tommy Ice)
What created the “Church” or the “Ecclesia” (the ‘Called Out’ of God) is the New Covenant. This “New Covenant”
was promised to Israel. If this covenant created the Church, how can it be said that God has two or more programs?
Everything is under the New Covenant, the Old is passing away… when Israel realizes who their Messiah is and accepts Him, then they too shall come under the New Covenant and, thus, become part of God’s ‘Called Out’. God doesn’t operate via “dispensations.” He has always worked through a series of covenants.
The New Covenant is for Jews and Gentiles Alike:
Jeremiah 31:31—“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that
I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
1 Corinthians 11:24—“And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26) For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27) Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28) But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29) For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.”(c)
(c) The Church partakes of a ritual of remembrance of the initiation of the New Covenant. This places the Church under the New Covenant… in fact, it proves the Church was created by the New Covenant.
Hebrews 12:23—“To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
The Church comprises Israel and Gentiles in one new and chosen body…
Galatians 3:28—“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Colossians 3:11—“Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.”
Israel will become part of the Church (which is what Israel was supposed to be)
Romans 11:17—“And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18) Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19) Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his]
goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in:
for God is able to graff them in again. 24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26) And so all Israel shall be saved…” (d)
(d) Israel was once part of Christ (the root), but was ‘broken off’ due to unbelief. The Gentiles (the Church) took their place… and shall continue to do so until Israel’s blindness is taken away and their believing remnant comes into its own. Then shall all Israel (Jew and Gentile) be saved. By definition, being ‘saved’ means becoming part of the Church (saved by faith).
3) The Nature of the Tribulation
“The Bible teaches that the major purpose of the Tribulation Period (i.e., the seven-year, 70th week of Daniel) is primarily a time of preparation for Israel's restoration (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11).
While the church is told that she will experience tribulation in general during this present age (John 16:33), she is never mentioned in Old or New Testaments as participating in Israel's time of trouble which includes the Great Tribulation, the Day of the Lord, and the Wrath of God. Pretribulationalism gives the best answer to the biblical fact that the church is never mentioned as participating in Tribulational events, while Israel is found throughout.” (The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine While Standing On One Foot, Dr. Tommy Ice)
There are a few problems with this statement. First, Christ gave His prophetic knowledge to the apostles (then, disciples) as representatives of the Church. Second, the Church is God’s elect. Third, the Tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect.
Christ specifically gave special understanding to the apostles as opposed to ‘the Jews’
Matthew 13:10—“And the disciples came, and said unto him, "why speakest thou unto them in parables?" He
answered and said unto them, "because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them [the Jews] it is not given. 11) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 12) Therefore I speak to them [the Jews] in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."
Mark 4:10—“and when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable and he said unto them, "unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of god: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables."”
Matthew 13:34—“all these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.”” (e)
(e) Christ kept the disciples (specifically, the twelve) separate from the masses. Unto the disciples He expounded the mysteries of the kingdom of God, unto the masses He only spoke in parables. Unto the Church He gave all knowledge, unto “Israel” He gave only hints.
1 Corinthians 12:28—“And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.” (f)
(f) The apostles were members of the Church. Even if Christ’s separation of the disciples (specifically the 12 who would become apostles) from the masses wasn’t enough, Scripture clearly places the apostles in the Church.
The Prophetic passages in the Gospels were for the Church
Matthew 24:1—“then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and his disciples came up to show him the buildings of the temple. 2) and Jesus said to them, "do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." 3) now as he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Mark 13:1—“then as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "teacher, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!" 2) and Jesus answered and said to him, "do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down." 3) now as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 4) "tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?"
Luke 21:5—“Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6)
"These things which you see--the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 7) So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"” (g)
(g) The prophetic passages of the gospels, as stated above, were given directly to and for the benefit of the apostles, aka the Church. The apostles weren’t going to experience the tribulation, yet the prophetic passages use the 2nd person when referencing the apostles: “when YOU see”, “they shall deliver YOU up…” Christ was speaking to the Church itself through the apostles.
The Church IS God’s ‘elect’
Colossians 3:10—“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free:
but Christ is all, and in all. 12) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;”
Titus 1:1—“Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;”
Romans 8:33—“Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34) Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
(Notice: Israel was God’s “elect” in the O.T. The Church has taken over that title.) If the Church IS God’s ‘elect’, then the Church is in the Tribulation
Matthew 24:22—“And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”
Mark 13:20—“And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.”
Matthew 24:24—“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
4) Church Outside the Tribulation
“The Bible teaches that the major purpose of the Tribulation Period (i.e., the seven-year, 70th week of Daniel) is primarily a time of preparation for Israel's restoration (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11).
While the church is told that she will experience tribulation in general during this present age (John 16:33), she is never mentioned in Old or New Testaments as participating in Israel's time of trouble which includes the Great Tribulation, the Day of the Lord, and the Wrath of God. Pretribulationalism gives the best answer to the biblical fact that the church is never mentioned as participating in Tribulational events, while Israel is found throughout.” (The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine While Standing On One Foot, Dr. Tommy Ice)
Since according to Pre-Tribulationism and Dispensationalism, the “Church” was never mentioned in the O.T., it being a ‘mystery’, it isn’t surprising that they reject the Church’s participation in the “Tribulation”. What does the Word say about believers in the Tribulation?
Matthew 24:37—“But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
Genesis 6:5—“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth;
both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (h)
(h) The Tribulation is often compared with the days of Noah. Christ simply stated that the end of the world would come because of the wickedness of men. Sin would abound, and as a result Satan would be cast out. Because of transgressions, God will be forced at some point to put an end to it. What this is saying is that God is going to allow sin to abound for the purpose of finishing sin once and for all. He will wait until the “fullness of times”, or rather the world reaches its “fullness of sin”. The nations God ejected from the promised land were removed because they had reached the ‘fullness’ of their sin, and Israel was later removed for the same reason. The parable of the wheat and tares proves that God will allow the righteous and wicked to live together until the very end, then He will FIRST gather the wicked to Armageddon for destruction BEFORE gathering His elect. This means believers will be on earth up until Armageddon, which clearly contradicts the Pre-Trib schema.
5) Contrasts between Comings
“The Rapture is characterized in the New Testament as a "translation or resurrection coming" (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) in which the Lord comes for His church, taking her to His Father's House (John 14:3). On the other hand, Christ's Second Advent with His saints (the church = Rev. 19)
descends from heaven and arrives on earth to stay and set up His Messianic kingdom (Zech. 14:4-5;
Matt. 24:27-31). All of the differences between the two events are harmonized naturally by the Pre- Trib position, while all other views are not able to comfortably account for such differences.” (The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine While Standing On One Foot, Dr. Tommy Ice)
The differences so-called between “rapture” and “2nd coming” passages are largely superficial and in the eye of the beholder. Scripture makes no such distinctions from the passages simply because the rapture, in proper context, is understood to be an aspect of the 2nd coming and the resurrection. It is unnatural to divide the rapture from the 2nd coming…
The Language of the Rapture/2nd Coming
The Parousia(2nd coming) must occur after the Apostasia.(2 Thess. 2:1-3)
Our Episunagoge(Gathering) unto Him must occur after the Apostasia.(2 Thess. 2:1-3)
The Parousia is accompanied by a shout, an archangel’s voice and the trumpet of God.(1 Thessalonians 4:16) The Parousia will precede the Harpazo(catching away).(1 Thess. 4:14-17)
The Parousia will precede the resurrection of the dead.(1 Corinthians 15:22-23)
The resurrection of the dead must precede the Harpazo.(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) The Parousia will precede our Episunagoge(Gathering) unto Him.(2 Thessalonians 2:1) The Parousia will precede Satan’s destruction.(2 Thessalonians 2:8)
Satan is destroyed at the Epiphaneia(brightness) of His Parousia.(2 Thess. 2:8)
Christ will judge the living and dead at His Epiphaneia(appearing) and His kingdom.(2 Timothy 4:1) The just are given their rewards at His Epiphaneia(appearing).(2 Timothy 4:8)
The just are given their crowns at His Phaneroo(appearance).(1 Peter 5:4)
The ‘Blessed Hope’ of all believers is His glorious Epiphaneia(appearing).(Titus 2:13) The just will not know when to expect His Erchomai(coming).(Matthew 24:42) Christ will Erchomai(come) with all His angels and set up His throne.(Matthew 25:31)
The sign of the Son of Man will appear Phaino the tribes of the earth will see Him Erchomai (coming).(Matthew 24:30)
The just are to be awaiting the Apokalupsis(coming) of Christ.(1 Corinthians 1:7) Grace will be given unto believers at the Apokalupsis(revelation) of Christ.(1 Peter 1:13)
The just shall rest when Jesus is Apokalupsis(revealed) from heaven with His angels.(2 Thessalonians 1:7)
The Quick and the Dead
1 Corinthians 15:51—“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
(Note: WE shall ALL be changed. ALL the Church at the same time(this excludes the possibility of ‘tribulation saints’). Also, the dead shall be raised, then the living shall be changed. Christ cannot marry His Bride unless she’s fully present.)
6) Populating the Millennium
“…premillennial posttribulationism has no answer to their problem of who will populate the millennium if the rapture and second coming occur at the same time. Since all believers will be translated at the rapture and all unbelievers judged, because no unrighteous shall be allowed to enter Christ's kingdom, then no one would be left in mortal bodies to start the population base for the millennium. The pre-trib viewpoint does not have a problem at this point.” (THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND COMING: AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION by Thomas Ice)
It is apparent to me that whether one believes in a Pre-Trib rapture or Post-Trib, they have the same issue: regardless of when the rapture occurs, there must be someone left alive at Christ’s return. To say that this is a problem for Post- Trib exclusively is in error.
Revelation 19:15—“And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”
(Note: Even though Christ smites the nations… He still leaves some around to reign and rule over.)
Zechariah 14:16—“And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.”
Isaiah 24:1—“Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. 2) For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. 3) Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4)And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.”
(Note: It is apparent that only the armies which come against Jerusalem at the battle of Armageddon will be destroyed… so, of those left, who shall remain through the Millennium?
Matthew 25:31—“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in?
or naked, and clothed thee? 39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
(Note: Those who are saved destruction, the sheep, are SURPRISED to be saved. They are saved from
destruction for simple acts of kindness toward His people(believers, whether Jewish or Gentile, aka the Church), which the goats apparently didn’t perform. These sheep are not believers as believers are already sealed to salvation and thus wouldn’t have been surprised to be saved, nor would they be gathered out of all nations after His coming and the destruction of the armies at Armageddon.)