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This study was initiated through requests from the Minnesota State Student Association and the Faculty Association to better understand advising on our campus. Many people have taken a part in its
production, including the work of Dr. Lynn Akey, Ms. Jennie Cashin, Mr. Gerald Oman, Mr. Nathan Gustafson in Institutional Research, Angie Bomier in the College of Science and Engineering and Technology, Sarah Glaser, intern in the First Year Seminar Office, Nicole Dose, Director of First Year Experience, Ramon Pinero in Admissions, and Kellian Clink in the library.
Introduction
Minnesota State University, Mankato benefits enormously from the talents of the students who transfer here from other institutions. It is important to understand their stories, their needs, and the resources that the institution can provide to best facilitate their success here. To that end, this document will discuss the research about transfer student achievement generally, and then move to our own processes and statistical description of these students and their experiences here as is seen through the Noel Levitz and NSSE data on transfer students as it relates to advising. Advising is critical to student success in general and
particularly as it assists transfer students. The bulk of this document is in the result of three surveys: of students, of Mankato’s Student Relations Coordinators and Department Chairs, and a survey of advisors at sending institutions.
Literature Review
To state the obvious, getting a college degree is important. There are statistics that confirm the instinctive feeling that a degree is beneficial. An interesting study in an economics journal looked at the actual statistical benefits in Minnesota that accrue to the society at large from achievement of a college degree including wage spillover (people with education creating jobs for those with less education), and non-income benefits which include increased civic participation, reduced criminal behavior, and enhanced social interactions (Damon, Glewwe, 2011). The paths to a degree are many.
One of the means students gain a college degree is by way of a community college experience followed by a transfer to 4 year institution. While community and technical colleges may fulfill needs other than paths to a Bachelor’s degree, the concern here is the means of making the transfer experience a successful one. The Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system reported a 52 percent increase in the rate of students transferring among the system's 32 public institutions from 1999 to 2008. (Minnesota Office of Higher Education, 2010). While a community college to 4 year degree can work, and does work, generally at Minnesota State Mankato, there are problems too, including, as Roksa and Calcagno concluded “Community colleges can serve as a democratizing force in higher education; however, their
Table of Contents Introduction Page 1 Literature Review Page 1
Minnesota State University Mankato Page 5 Student Survey Results Page 10
Department Chair and SRC Survey Results Page 23 Sending Institutions Survey Results Page 27
Conclusions Page 30 Bibliography Page 32
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ability to overcome inadequate preparation with which some students enter higher education is limited. Including academic preparation in K-12 is thus a crucial component of enhancing transfer (Roksa and Calcagno, 2010).
While traditionally, Minnesota has had a good reputation for educational access, that’s changing. Minnesota’s gross and net tuition and fees were higher than the national average for most public and private institutions. (Minnesota Office of Higher Education, 2009) Minnesota undergraduates from families with annual incomes less than $30,000 were much more likely to attend public two-year institutions than any other option; students from families with annual incomes of $60,000 or more were more likely to enroll in private colleges and the University of Minnesota.
There are many studies that measure the educational success of transfer students by using metrics such as retention and graduation rates. These studies suggest that transfer student retention rates are 1–9 percentage points lower than native students, and their graduation rates are 2–8 percentage points lower than native students (Avakian et al. 1982; Porter 1999). Another study also found a lower rate of graduation for transfer students. About 44% of those who transferred to four-year institutions from two-year institutions graduated within 6 two-years, while 63% of native students did so (NCES 2003) (Ishitani, 2008) Conversely, one North Carolina study indicated that transfer students “will experience some transfer shock during their first semester, they seem to recover and do as well or better than their native counterparts by the end of the second semester (Glass and Harrington, 2002). Glass and Harrington’s study found that the transfer students did graduate, just a little slower. The preponderance of the literature seems to indicate that transfer students who have chosen community colleges because of cost too often do not succeed in obtaining the more financially remunerative Bachelor’s degree.
Price may determine college choice, but that choice may lead ultimately to different life paths. “Low wages and a lack of higher education contribute to families having insufficient incomes. ”Parents without a college education often struggle to earn enough to support a family, but only 30 percent of adults in Minnesota have a bachelor’s degree. A substantial portion of children in Minnesota whose parents only have a high school diploma—58 percent—are low income (Minnesota Family Economic Security Profile, 2011).” Race plays a part. “The percentage of Minnesota students who earn a bachelor’s degree within six years is 57 percent overall, but only 43 percent for Blacks, 46 percent for Hispanics, and 36 percent for American Indians. Similarly, of Minnesotans age 25-40 years, greater proportions of Whites (38%) and Asians (47%) have attained a bachelor’s degree or higher compared to Blacks (17%), Hispanics (15%), and American Indians (9%) (Minnesota Department of Education, 2007). The National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education (2008) gave Minnesota an “F” on affordability, indicating that low-income families must devote 36 percent of their income, even after aid, to pay for tuition and living costs at a two-year college.” (Broton, 2009) In Minnesota, as a result of higher education funding cuts, approximately 9,400 students lost their state financial aid grants entirely, and the remaining state financial aid recipients will see their grants cut by 19 percent. (Johnson, Oliff, & Williams, 2011). The picture is grim. A commentary in the Chronicle of Higher Education summed it up,
Four-year institutions are not hostile to transfer students--those students are simply not on their radar. Historically, colleges and universities have built their legacies around a four-year curriculum. Admitting student’s midway into that curriculum is awkward even
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under the best of circumstances. (Counselors rarely recommend that Ivy League students switch schools midstream.) Moreover, colleges have few incentives to admit students from community colleges. They are harder to recruit because they don't all graduate at the same time, as high-school students do. They are more difficult to advise and prepare
academically because lower-division requirements may differ significantly from one four-year institution to another, even for the same major. Finally, transfer students' applications are harder to evaluate because four-year institutions must base their admissions decisions solely on grades earned by those students in specific community-college courses. Yet four-year faculty members are often loath to accept such courses in lieu of their own. (Handel, 2010)
But there is hope through advising. Hatton, Homer and Park, in a NACADA document, outline ways that advising can mediate the potential barriers to degree completion of community college transfers to four-year institution. In a document entitled “Academic Advising as a Comprehensive Campus
Process,” they articulate some of the barriers for community college students at 4 year institutions including cost of attendance, policies, campus climate (increased formality between faculty and students, negative expectations of faculty members for transfer students, sense of community), and “transfer shock,” (drop in GPA when student transfers). Advisors can help with all of these issues, the authors argue. A study done by Calcagno et al offers statistical data to confirm this argument: “A more professional atmosphere and personalized services, such as having a greater proportion of full-time faculty rather than part-time and expanding academic support services, seem to benefit the traditional-age student population in the National Educational Longitudinal Study (NELS) 88 sample (Calcagno, Bailey, Jenkins, Kienzl, & Leinbach, 2008).
An in-depth qualitative study named five arenas, first posited by Flaga in 2002, where advisors on both ends can make a difference: “Learning Resources, Connecting, Familiarity, Negotiating, and Integrating (Flaga 2006).” Flaga’s 2006 follow-up article argued for increased advisor collaboration between sending and receiving schools, including a promotion of understanding of both campuses’ physical and educational environments. Flaga goes so far as to recommend a pretransfer orientation course to be offered at the community college. An orientation that included teaming native students with incoming students was discussed. Since students use peers for learning about the academic, social, and physical environment of the campus, it makes sense to make sure the peers they use are knowledgeable peers. Peer mentors, she suggests, are a means of connecting students with campus involvement opportunities as well as campus resources. (Flaga, 2006).
Minnesota State, Mankato can only control the services we offer and can’t address pre-existing conditions. Much of the research about transfer student transition points to the students’ socioeconomic status, race, or K-12 preparation as contributing factors in transfer student lack of success. We can’t do anything about that. What Minnesota State, Mankato can do is contemplate making changes that are suggested by transfer students themselves. The survey reported here from the spring of 2012 is our students’ thoughts and their concrete suggestions can in many cases easily be accomplished. Peer mentors, information before orientation, which information is usefully provided at orientation, and which information is not helpful at that juncture, all are reported. They like an idea in progress, a center for
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transfer students, although most of the issues tend to be in the realm of figuring out which classes actually transfer both technically and realistically in terms of giving them the skill sets needed to success in subsequent courses, which is necessarily in the departmental realm. There are some national trends evident in the literature that can be incorporated as well.
One study using focus groups of 500 community college transfer students found they were largely satisfied with their sending institutions, but unsatisfied by many issues at the receiving
institutions. Some of the comments included inaccessible professors, tired professors teaching part-time but exhausted from their other job. Advisors were unhelpful and gave students the runaround. Classes were regarded as not intellectually stimulating but more hoops to jump through, multiple choice tests to take, grades to get. Graduate teaching assistants instead of professors was an unexpected and unwelcome surprise. They used the words “overwhelmed, dehumanized, depersonalized, and invisible.” (Davies &Dickmann, 1998) The recommendations for improvement were along the lines of the Flaga study: increase communication between the institutions, improve the personal relations with their advisors, and better inform both institutions what students need to understand. (Davies & Dickmann, 1998). This is doable. A student comment from another Davies article echoes student comments reported in Minnesota State, Mankato’s study from last year:
"I was confused. The people I was being helped by, they were graduate students themselves, working at these jobs, so they would be gone by the time I got in there." "I'd call admissions and I'd get different people and different people would tell me different things." Other experiences revolved around the level of courtesy and service extended to students by people working at CSU, with students feeling that they were treated like second-class citizens,: "When this lady just wanted to push me through in ten minutes because she had an appointment ..." "I still see this attitude, not as much faculty, but just a lot of the employees on campus. They think we're just a bunch of pompous kids or something like that, that need to be put in our place. I thought that was uncalled for." (Davies & Casey, 1999)
We can change attitudes, familiarize advisors with the frustrations felt by students, and thereby start to change the academic climate.
To summarize, research indicates that some of the reasons transfer students fail to matriculate with a Bachelor’s degree include: academic preparation in K-12, financial wherewithal, GPA downturn at the receiving campus, campus climate, and lack of meaningful bridges between the sending and receiving institutions. In Minnesota, there is clearly an ethnicity factor at play, although there is no research at the Minnesota level studying the reasons for lack of transfer success. MSU,M could profitably study the following issues in order to fully understand the specific factors at play in successful transitions and perhaps start with generically appropriate measures and then turn, in the years ahead to addressing the specific issues of veterans, nontraditional students, students of color, first generation students, etc. Some of the ideas worth exploring are:
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• Clarity of role expectations for the transferring college, receiving college, and transfer student. Important that all are clear in their understanding of their role in the process.
• The role of student knowledge and commitment to academic and career path at outset of education
• Student preparation in K-12 system
• academic preparation in community college
• Transferability and accuracy of transfer information available to the student in their planning process
• Socioeconomic factors, ethnicity, first-generational status, parental ability to mentor and provide financial assistance
• Availability of student loans and grants • Campus climate
• Health and mental health status, family matters, access to child care, veteran status, disability status, lgbt status, personal skills conducive to student success such as time management, ability to focus, initiative, etc.
• Services. This study is attempting to understand one service, advising, from both sending and receiving institutions, but this study will touch on at least some of the other issues.
The bulk of this document will articulate student, Mankato advisor and sending institution’s advisors thoughts. This document will be shared with people in a position to help make changes that will ease the transitions for our transfer students.
Advising and the Transfer Student
Advising, as already has been suggested, can provide critical assistance for the transfer student. Laanan (1996) wrote that advisors “should be given to efforts that assure students who are in the transfer pipeline are not disillusioned and are well equipped with the tools to handle the transfer process." Davies has done multiple studies using focus groups that indicated where the problems reside—relationships between the institutions and relationship building for the student at the receiving institution. Hagedorn’s study concluded that “For most community college students, counseling is key to obtaining the
knowledge that will lead them through the community colleges. Unfortunately, counseling is a rare commodity. … Recent state level budget cuts have been especially cruel to the community college system and are threatening to increase the ratio even more. If policy makers truly want to increase student access to higher education at the baccalaureate level, increased attention to the number and quality of counseling services at community colleges is necessary.” (Hagedorn, 2006). A nice summary is offered up in an article by Von Wie in a recent book on transfer students and is quoted below in toto:
Creating a successful and satisfying transfer experience requires a strong partnership between students and the institutions involved. Gernand (1993) addressed the academic and career decision-making needs of students before and after transfer. During the pretransfer phase, undecided students need to begin assessing and improving their academic skills as they relate to possible programs of study at the transfer institution. It is also important for them to master time management and study skills in addition to exploring the personal, social, and financial costs of transferring. During the transfer process itself, it is imperative that the student collect
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accurate information to make appropriate connections. Posstransfer issues are those special needs that undecided transfer students have as they matriculate at their new institution. The new institution should be aware of these needs and provide services and programs to meet them, including specialized orientations and advising; academic support services (e.g., peer advising, mentoring); social networking opportunities, especially during the first three weeks of the term; and student success courses. Core helping skills, accurate information about academic majors and institutional policies and procedures, and flexibility are essential in helping the students realize their educational and occupational goals. (Von Wie, 2011).
Minnesota State University, Mankato
Students are urged to transfer here. Our recruiting piece on the university’s website: “Wherever you're coming from, you'll find yourself welcome at Minnesota
State Mankato. World-class instruction, lasting friendships and great times. Minnesota State Mankato is where your education catches up with your dreams and goals. If along the way you have
questions on
transcripts, finances, housing or other areas, the Admission staff is eager to help. If you want to know how your credits will transfer
visit our transfer of credit page.”
Here are our admissions standards:
• Admissions for Transfer Students at MSU Transfer students who have completed at least 24 semester (36 quarter) college level credits after high school graduation at a regionally accredited college or university with a 2.0 cumulative grade point average and satisfactory completion of at least 67 percent of the credits attempted will generally be admitted to Minnesota State University, Mankato with advanced standing.
• Transfer students who have fewer than 24 semester (36 quarter) credits or have attended a technical college, at time of application, MUST submit a final high school transcript and ACT test scores. Eligibility for admissions will be based on the high school and collegiate records. Transfer process in general (from Bulletin)
Transfer Student Orientation is a one day experience designed for students transferring to Minnesota State University, Mankato. You will receive valuable information from various campus offices and
departments, meet other transfer students, complete advising and registration, and work with staff
members to help you with your transition to Minnesota State University, Mankato. There is not a specific Family Orientation Program; however guests can attend with the students.
During your time on campus you will have the opportunity to…
• Be informed about important policies and procedures for transfer students • Learn about how to get involved in campus life
• Receive information from various offices such as Financial Aid, Career Development Center, and more
• Review your Transfer Evaluation, and much more • Complete advising and registration
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To break it down, there is the experience the student has prior to coming to MSU, including
their understanding at that time of their college and career direction, their college
experiences in the classroom, with student services, and on campus in general . Then, there is
the decision to get a degree at Minnesota State University, informed by their advisors, our
website, and perhaps a person here, maybe an advisor, a faculty member, a family member,
or a friend. Next, they apply. They hear back and are accepted. They attend a one-day
transfer orientation program. At that orientation, they may be informed about which classes
are transferring and which are not, they understand their plan of study some, and they receive
information from some service points on campus. Finally, they come to campus, meet with
an advisor, take classes, and hopefully eventually graduate.
Who are these students? There are 14 schools that send the most students. They are • Normandale Community
• South Central College
• Riverland Community College
• Rochester Community & Technical College • St. Cloud State University
• Bethany Lutheran College • South Dakota State University • University Of Minnesota Twin Cities • Anoka-Ramsey Community College • University Of Minnesota-Duluth • Inver Hills Community College • Winona State University • Ridgewater College
• North Hennepin Community College
Let us understand them more completely. The folks at Institutional Research came up with some detailed statistics about our transfer students who entered in 08, 09, 10, and 11.
Some definitions:
The data is for the End of Term – indicates the student’s status at the end of the term.
Retained – for end of term: the student is classified as graduated for the term. If the student was found in the National Student Clearinghouse (he/she took courses at another institution), the student is still
classified as retained, not transferred.
Transferred – If a record is found in the National Student Clearinghouse (NSC) for this student for this term and the student was NOT enrolled at the institution this term, the student will be considered 'transferred'. However, if the student was found in the NSC, but was concurrently enrolled at the institution, the student is classified as 'retained' for this term (i.e., 'retained' overrides 'transfer' where both occur in the same term).
Graduated – If the student was enrolled during this term and graduated at the END of the term, the student was graduated; also, the student would be classified as 'graduated' for all subsequent terms.
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Success – indicates whether the student was considered a success for this term, meaning the student was EITHER retained OR transferred OR graduated.
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Student Survey
The survey was launched March 16, 2012. The survey itself came through combinations of the
work done this last year by the Advising Task Force, work that Sarah Glaser did, testing it on 6
student senators who are transfer students, and thoughts of Nikki Dose, who is in the process of
creating a Transfer Center. An incentive was given for completing the survey. The results from
201 respondents:
98 percent are taking the bulk of their courses here. 81 percent are between 21 and 25 years old,
about half of their parents graduated college. 47 percent went to community college, 86 percent
transferred during their second or third year. 75 percent transferred in more than 24 credits. 74
transferred in more than half or all of their credits successfully. 66 percent had an assigned
advisor and 37 percent had an advising center at their previous institution. 25 percent never used
advising, 54 percent used it sometimes and 24 per cent used it often 42 percent were in their
fourth year of college and 28 percent were in their fifth year of college. 54 percent did NOT
when they started college, plan on transferring to another institution. 85 percent did NOT
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particularly plan on coming to Minnesota State, Mankato. The question about when they told
an advisor their plans to transfer were interesting:
73 percent felt that overall, the institutions understood each other’s policies, and Again, I will
share the exact statistics on this next question:
Unlike our previous study, 96 percent of these students know who their advisor here is, and this
is how they found out:
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About a third meet with their advisor less than once a semester, a third once a semester and a
third more than once a semester. They consult a number of resources for advising questions:
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The results were overwhelming positive about their advisors knowledge as well, about majors,
transfer processes, everything. This was in great contrast to the study we did last year. Also,
they mostly feel okay about their own knowledge:
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Mostly, they felt their transition here was easy and helpfully indicated the things they want
BEFORE orientation, during, or after orientation, which will be of great help to us.
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Overall, students found the transition easy:
I will include here the comments from the above question, though they include swearing,
typographical errors, rants and raves, so that the reader can get a real sense of the spectrum of
responses:
To become more familiar with the NTSC center for non-traditional students and get more
involved with students.
My number one complaint about this university is the poor structure of the financial aid services.
The high quantity of errors that I have experienced has shown me that the system, which is
currently in place, is utterly flawed. It is an unacceptable manner of conducting a business, and I
know for a fact that the current state of the financial aid services deters potential students from
attending this university because they want to avoid the never ending hassle.
Advising and focus toward obtaining a job. advisors seemed unconcerned with my particular
situation and more focused on traditional paths; leaving me feeling like their advice didn't apply
to me and leaving me advice-less. Also I was assigned an advisor in the wrong department.
Accounting finance major with accounting as no. 1 and had finance advisor
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I am just too busy to do a lot of that stuff. But I do like attending MNSU.
Having the transfer office/ registration office take care of issue rather than giving a number to
another person. Then that person gives me a number to another person. Every time I tried to get
an override for gen ed or tried to get these classes transferred in it was very difficult. I felt as if
some of the people I spoke to tried pawning their job off to another faculty member. It took me
several hours and days to get a simple pre calc class to transfer into this university. And one
faculty member told me that the material could have been different, even when I gave her a
syllabus. IT’S SIMPLE MATH; there is only one possible outcome that I can achieve.
I am taking all of my classes online. The transfer process was very easy and everyone I talked to
on the phone during the process was very helpful. The academic transfer process was a little
disappointing. I wanted to use the classes I had for a Business minor, but was told that even
though I had all of the classes completed, I would still need to complete half the classes at
Mankato again-even though I had taken the classes within the Minnesota State University
system. It was a waste of time, effort, and money. I was very disappointed by that, and am still a
little resentful of the fact those classes are now considered useless, but still count in my total
credits.
I obtained an AA Degree at the community college I transferred from and it was quite a
headache to get my classes transferred in appropriately. I had to stop by and meet with Colleen
Van Sickle numerous times as she made many a bunch of errors regarding class equivalents and
even failed to include an entire year's worth of classes on my transcript. While I would
understand an error here or there, I expected a better transition. Then, a couple months after
transferring here, I learned the degree I specifically came to this school for was no longer being
offered (MIS). Thankfully, the COB department has been very helpful in working with me to
take the right classes to obtain this degree, but the school does a very poor job of communicating
majors no longer offered.
Make sure all parties involved with residency are in agreement. One person told me I would get
in-state tuition, but then my account showed I didn't receive it. I had to talk to the campus hub to
get it cleared up and I eventually received in-state tuition, but the process was sometimes
frustrating.
Understanding beforehand what classes transfer and which classes I could have taken at my
previous school before going here so that I wouldn't be behind. Because I wasn't aware of
numerous classes and/or gen ed requirements before going here, I will be AT LEAST (emphasis
on AT LEAST) 1-2 years behind everyone else with whom I went to school with at my previous
school just because I have to spend extra time catching up and taking classes that, to be honest, I
won't remember anything from, other schools offering the same degree don't require, and don't
really care to take either. I'm at the point in my academic career that I want to get my degree and
graduate, not play catch up so that I can meet artificial "goals" (better yet barriers) set by the
school and/or state by taking classes from which I stand to gain absolutely nothing (except a
larger pile of debt). Transferring here is easily one of the most frustrating, annoying, difficult
and, quite honestly, worst decisions I've ever made. If I were asked to make the choice again
whether or not to transfer here after several years or start out as a freshman, I'd easily choose to
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start out as a freshman, even if that means I don't save extra money, because the transferring
transition is just that BAD.
It was easy to apply and get admitted. Orientation went very smoothly. I had a hard time
knowing which classes transferred as what requirements. I just recently figured this out. I know
it says what each one is in my degree audit, but I didn't know why certain classes transferred as
classes that were not the same. I had a hard time meeting people because I lived at home. It got
better when I moved on campus. Overall, it was a fine process. It could have gone more
smoothly, but I had no major issues.
Having Normandale Community College and Mankato on the same page would have improved
my transition. Having more than one Adviser would have also been helpful. It was hard to get a
hold of my adviser at times because they had so many Advisees.
If there was student transfer specialists like there are for the incoming freshman.
Seems perfect for me
I get sick of having to get overrides for all my transfer classes. It seems like it should
automatically be done for me when I transfer. Don't we have the technology?
I just want to graduate, is that too much to ask, I go to every fucking class, do all the fucking
homework, and take the mother fucking tests, and still I can't graduate. Riddle me that? I want to
pay taxes and have a real job, but nope. Got to stay in school and be a burden on the society.
The only problem I remember was applying to get in state tuition... everything else was pretty
easy!
Having a tour of campus.
Nothin'. It was what it was.
The orientation process was completely unhelpful except for registering for classes. The rest was
a complete waste of my time. Coming in with over 60 transfer credits, it would have been nice to
be able to register on my own earlier since I was not able to get into many classes I needed since
I was registering so late.
Explanation of credits and how to use the bulletin
It would be nice to have three meetings with someone on transfer about credits. Right now I am
in my third year at mnsu and I'm still working on transferring credits over. I work on it every
Nothing! :)
Personally I don't think there's much the university could have done to ease my transition. Much
of the difficulty I had was my own fault. The only problem I had was that I didn't qualify for
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daddy squat in scholarships because I was a transfer student. This university is NOT very
financially accommodating for new transfer students.
MSU teachers that help transfer students need to make promises they can deliver on. they need
facts, not their opinion. I also think all things discussed should be recorded using an electronic
device so all teachers can’t just say, "I don’t remember saying that." they need to be held
accountable for every word that comes out of there mouth.
Maybe an initial person to person transfer credit evaluation before you enrolls into classes. Help
set up an academic plan for individuals
I felt that it was not too difficult to transfer to MSU, I had already received my AA so there were
not too many classes I had to take, and most of my generals transferred so that was not a huge
problem
My social transition would have been easier if I had joined more student organizations. However,
I did meet new people by living in the upper classmen dorm, which was an also mostly transfer
student.
I found it extremely difficult to meet new people and get involved. As a junior I felt most
students my age already had their group of friends they were going to hang out with. No one
explained to me what classes were going to transfer or what classes I should register for. When I
asked at orientation I was told to just register for what I thought seemed interesting, as a result I
took a semesters worth of class I did not need. Beyond frustrating! I also felt that as a transfer no
one really explained to me where things were or what the campus had to offer and how things
worked. Some examples; mavcash/cards, student health services, COB printing, counseling
centers, no advisor assigned, CDC. Financial Aid was another huge issue that was never
explained to me. I feel like I missed out on a lot at my time here at MSU because the transition
for transfer students in outrageously underdeveloped
I had difficulties getting all my classes to apply to necessary classes here in Mankato. Also there
were some confusions about my official transfer list coming into Mankato and getting them all
accepted.
More learning opportunities, better community and faculty and advisors.
Everything was very smooth and I could not have asked for a better transfer experience.
My transcript didn’t get approved right away. I had to call and it was apparently it was just
sitting there, so then they got it processed. It’s frustrating how none of my math credits ever
register when I am signing up for class, so I have to get an exception but in by my advisor.
The only problem I have with any portion of transferring to MSU was that as a non-traditional
student, it is difficult to work on projects with students that do not take their classes seriously. I
am referring to group projects that professors insist on having as a portion of the requirement in
the deciding factor of a grade. When you are in a group of 4 and the other 3 students are not
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taking the work seriously or slack on the project, it is stressful and affects your grade. This is not
a fair or realistic expectation to someone who is there to complete a degree and does take their
work seriously. I did not enroll at MSU to babysit or keep track of someone else's children as I
have my own at home to tend to. I feel that professors should have an option for people to either
work as a group or complete the project as an individual regardless on the amount of work
involved in the project.
The credits at my previous college not being transferred sucked
There was way too much walking around on campus to get anything done. As some of the
courses did not transfer in as a class known at MSU-Mankato. I had to walk all over campus to
get to the correct department set up a time to meet with someone who can decide what class the
transferred class could possibly be transferred in as and then repeat. I live off campus so this is
very inconvenient. Also some transfer classes though transferred in, some of the faculty were not
able to help with advising for classes.
Well for me the university wouldn't take me unless i had 24 credits to transfer in. Seeing as I
didn't take the college placement tests. I think dropping that 24 credit requirement might bring in
more people willing to spend money on education. I would have went to Mankato state
university my first years if I wasn't required to take those 24 credits or take college prerequisite
tests that I would have need to take in high school. Sense I graduated in 2003 I was the last
generation not required to take the college testing. That means everyone else that was born
before me would have an even harder time getting into a university like this.
My transition was a joke. Most of my classes were considered "electives" when they met all sorts
of requirements at the University of Minnesota. I had to take speech and freshman comp in
addition to a "participation" course. I was very displeased with my transfer to MSU and have
made it known to several people, including individuals considering attending MSU.
Having a person who is very knowledgeable about transfer credits available at orientation to
answer questions
During orientation when I had to register for classes, I had a very difficult time figuring out what
I was supposed to take. The staff helping did not seem very knowledgeable. They didn't even
have my course equivalent sheet for me, but all the other 100 people received theirs on
orientation day. Staff made me calls all these people on campus. I didn't know what I was doing.
It was very stressful. I left MNSU with no registered classes.
The transfer process was not that hard because I was able to just go onto the website in order to
complete everything. Orientation was fine because they sent all the information that you would
need plus parking information. Academically it was difficult at first. When I had to register for
classes they just put you at a bunch of computers. I knew nothing of how the academic bulletin
worked and what classes I should have taken. It would be better to have more people in the room
to help students. Socially it was difficult. I went to a small school so moving into the dorms and
being on campus was a transition. Still to this day don't really know what is all going on campus.
I think more emails about events; even small events would be good. Students check email more
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often because they need to for classes. Also I think that for transfer students or even freshmen
that are living in the dorms should be offered a "Buddy" on campus. Overall, it was okay. I took
a lot of time myself to go over the website and look at the bulletin and make sure I know
everything that was going on.
I would have got more advice on what classes to take because when I applied for my classes in
the first semester the advisor signed to me screwed up my schedule and put me in a class I
shouldn't have been in.
My records did not go through initially; I had to send my transcript about 3 times from my
previous school. I feel that things were unorganized, and even now as I look at my completed
credits and especially at general education requirements, I feel confused. I feel that the goal areas
are not explained well.
I am a degree completion student and I take all my classes on-line. The university does a great
job with emails to let off campus students know of changes and it makes me feel involved at the
university.
It was somewhat hard knowing how to read the Transfer Evaluation sheet. I also had a problem
when the Registrar's office (or whoever does this position) putting the classes into the correct
Goal Categories for general education credits. My issue was that one class got put into one
Category, but didn't get put in another category which the class also accounted for. It was a tough
process to go the department and have them fill out a sheet saying it was fine to let it go under
the correct category. It was hard to keep getting sent from one place, to the next, to the next and
then finally getting the help I needed. That was just a little bit of a hassle and annoying for me to
have to run all over the place to contact the right person just to have them sign a piece of paper...
It was hard to have contact with the admissions office in order to transfer all of my credits. Once
I got here and went to orientation my degree audit report was wrong and I had to wait with the
advisor for over an hour to figure out what was wrong and to correct it all. There is not enough
information for older transfer students. There are opportunities to meet people but that is more
for the first year students.
The transfer process was pretty simple. The staff and faculty were very helpful, advisor didn’t
help me too much and I am considering a switch because I am told too many things that are
either true or untrue and I have to find out through other staff members details on my major and
the requirements.
None the overall process was good
If I had questions in certain classes and whether they transferred or not I would talk to my
advisor and he would help me or tell me who I needed to talk to. It is easy to meet people
because you have classes with a lot of the same people every semester and there are clubs to get
involved in. My transition to Mankato was the right choice for me.
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Sorting through which parts of my associate’s degree were accepted and which were not was
difficult. The degree audit was helpful yet convoluted.
I thought transitioning to Mankato was overall easy. I didn't have any concerns and if concerns
ever arise now, I feel comfortable and confident that I know who to contact to address the
concerns.
It’s impossible to summarize these results. They are mixed. Overall, it was good to see mostly
how many students know who their advisors are, their comfort level with their advisors and
themselves in terms of their knowledge level. It is good to understand what they feel they would
like to participate in and it will be interesting to see if they would actually participate in the
things they said they would be interested in. I would personally be willing to help out with
orientation week activities.
Department Chairs and SRC Survey (Angie Bomier)
The Task Force surveyed both MSU Mankato department chairpersons and the college student relations coordinators in an attempt to identify issues pertaining to transfer course evaluation and the processes related to their major advising. Twenty-two MSU department chairpersons responded to the survey, and ALL of the MSU Mankato student relations coordinators and professional academic advisors appear to have responded.
MSU department chairpersons have unique and valuable perspectives on the transfer student experience, as they are responsible for assessing previous academic background to determine MSU course
equivalencies and appropriate substitutions which can be applied to major and minor requirements. Student relations coordinators (and the professional academic advisors associated with some departments and colleges) also have a unique perspective, as they often represent the primary and initial contact for both prospective and new, entering transfer students attending orientation. The SRCs and professional advisors work specifically with the major requirements associated with their colleges, and are also familiar with– and interpret to students - the processes involved in departmental evaluations. Responses from these two groups indicated general satisfaction with the most current “transfer audit form” initially provided to transfer admits. These groups appeared to be satisfied with the information included on the form, and found the transfer audit (DARS) generally easy to interpret to students. The evaluation of transfer courses to determine equivalencies or appropriate substitutions appeared to be much more challenging, as did understanding general MnSCU policies.
Question #3 on the survey (What other experiences do you find “difficult or “very difficult” in working with transfer students?) Yielded some unsurprising responses, based on past experiences at MSU. MANY of the respondents from both the SRC group and the department chairs indicated that a primary problem was having access to adequate transfer information in a timely manner. Trying to provide effective, initial advising for new transfer students during orientation sessions is always a challenge, due to the unique circumstances of each transfer student, and the limitations of time during orientation. It is
particularly frustrating, if basic information about transfer credits, English and/or mathematics placement scores, course descriptions, etc. is not available for the advisor’s review at the time of initial enrollment.
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The student relations coordinators (as a group) have over the years expressed their concerns about this issue, and have advocated for earlier admission deadlines for transfer students to allow for the preparation of needed transfer documents.
Several other obstacles to effective academic advising were cited by a number of department chairpersons, student relations coordinators, and the professional advisors. These included:
• “Misunderstandings” regarding the transfer of community college and technical program coursework. Especially challenging were misconceptions about the transfer of AAS and technical program courses and credits, and assumptions of transferability based strictly on course title. For example, a “Principles of Marketing” course might be offered as part of a one or two year certificate or diploma program in business, and the student might expect this course to apply for MSU’s 300-level “Principles of Marketing” course.
• Evaluation of transfer credits earned by international students at overseas institutions was cited by several department chairs as a challenge. In many cases, these students do not pursue evaluation of credit by professional services until AFTER their arrival at MSU. This creates problems because advisors and departments must try to informally assess a student’s
background, with no real knowledge of whether credits will actually be considered
university-level. In addition, it is often difficult for international students to provide detailed course syllabi, course descriptions, etc.
• Another issue cited by several chairs and advisors was that oftentimes needed courses are closed by the time transfer students attend orientation.
On survey question #4, Department chairpersons were asked to provide feedback on the information most helpful to them in determining transfer course equivalencies. An overwhelming majority of those who responded indicated that an actual course syllabus was preferred. Even those who felt that “course descriptions” were adequate indicated that a syllabus would be preferred for a more complete evaluation. Some respondents provided specific details of what should be included in the syllabus: textbooks, laboratory outlines, even copies of examinations.
Survey question #5, provided respondents with an opportunity to suggest strategies to improve the transfer process. There were a variety of different suggestions submitted. Several respondents noted that one-on-one advising at orientation or some type of earlier, pre-orientation advising meetings with transfer students would be very helpful. Based on my own experiences, the prospective transfer students who are able to identify their majors well in advance, and communicate with major advisors prior to orientation have the most positive experience with the transfer process at MSU. It appears that the survey responses validate that experience.
Among the other comments offered in response to this question, several again emphasized the importance of timely access to DARS and other documents for evaluating transfer credit. Some respondents
indicated frustration or concerns associated with transfer from the two-year colleges to MSU. Several of the comments indicated that students coming from the two-year colleges appear to have been
misinformed about the transferability of their coursework. One suggestion was that MSU faculty members arrange meetings with community college advisors and faculty in an effort to increase understanding.
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The Survey Monkey Results:
What strategies would you recommend to improve?
Orientation is challenging in that we do not a lot of individual time to give to students to review
their DARS, "Advise", explain options, etc. I am not sure I have a solution though.
If the DARS report could state that all MSU equivalencies have been made. Please visit your
advisor for substitutions to the major.
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My college (CAHN) needs a Student Advising Center which removes the load from individual
faculty making these decisions. Transfer of general education and basic classes could be handled
through that office. I love working with students but this transfer stuff is an incredible burden
that could be done as well as I do it by someone else.
Clearer understanding of the BA language requirement by advisors, especially the acceptance of
coursework in English language in the cases of international students, but most particularly that
the BA req. is for college coursework, not for an individual's language proficiency.
Allow us to have more faculties so we can offer more required courses so we have open sections
when transfer students come to register
For students transferring from community and technical colleges, don't assume that a 100- or
200- level course will substitute for a 400-level course even if it has the same name.
If we could see the evil beforehand.
More training on the process students go through
Providing for one-on-one time (as currently exists) is needed. You cannot work with numerous
transfer students at once since each will have unique circumstances.
A couple possibilities... perhaps we could figure out a way to strongly encourage new transfer
students to meet with their advisor and/or department chair - to determine course
equivalencies/substitutions from the beginning of their time here. During orientation, we have to
move quickly with these students - if individualized meetings/conversations could be encouraged
after orientation that may be useful. Also, someday, maybe transfer visit days could be set up -
allowing prospective students to come to campus and talk with advisors earlier about their
majors of interest. This may help with the challenges faced by students who come to campus
with a particular major in mind, but didn't realize all the requirements (GPA, required classes,
etc.) associated with that major...???
Meetings between the MSU faculty and the Community colleges help to answer questions. Some
students seem to get bad advising from their institutions and feel that there are promises about
what will transfer that have been made that can't be fulfilled on our end.
I may simply be inefficient, but it would help me to have their DARS report before I meet with
them during orientation.
In an ideal world, I'd like to see pre-transfer advising so we don't get students here who are not
ready or appropriate. Our staffing currently does not allow for this. Early evaluation of transfer
courses (regarding substitutions/waivers) would also be ideal, but again we have barriers of
availability of that information and time availability of our faculty.
Fewer students at a time. This summer, I tried to advise 7 transfer students in the same session. It
was a disaster.
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If the admissions office could inform students before they come, to bring all of course materials
with them for the courses they want to transfer, it would be easier for students after they come,
especially for foreign students. Students in community colleges should be advised to check with
the colleges they intend to transfer to see if the courses they take will transfer before they take
them, or be warned that the courses may not be transferable.
More SRC's who are familiar with the equivalency guides etc. Students are now "shopping" for
the easiest courses they can find in the system and with that the number of course transfers in has
increased extensively wasting a considerable amount of chair's time.
Make sure the student can read and write and do simple math.
MnSCU (and our own administration) promises "seamless transfer," regardless of the preparation
needed for specific majors. This is NOT effective.
SENDING INSTITUTION SURVEY (Ramon Pinero)
I was honored to be asked to join the Transfer Task Force. A huge part of my position as Transfer Specialist in the Admissions Office at Minnesota State Mankato is to develop relationships with other institutions. As a Transfer Specialist, I have the opportunity to interact with prospective transfer students on a daily basis. Daily interactions allow me to have a better understanding of where the road blocks exist.
I believe admissions and advising go close together when it comes to working with transfer students. My goal from the survey is to promote the ongoing issues that our partner institutions encounter when advising transfer students. As demographics change, it is important that we evaluate how we advise students. Advising is complex, no question about it. However, ironing out some of the issues is a must. The rapid growth of the transfer population (i.e. non-traditional students, etc.) has made it difficult and more time consuming to advice. Finding opportunities to simplify advising is necessary to improve our process. Our survey was given to folks from all community colleges in the state of Minnesota. The idea is to get detailed information on what is working for our counterparts and what could use some
improvement.
When working with prospective transfer students, many obstacles arise before matriculating to MSU. Advising is the key factor to determine if a student will make the transition or not. Another common obstacle is the student credit evaluation. This can take up to several weeks before an evaluation is completed causing student frustration. Fortunately these two obstacles can be improved, but have no immediate solution. Students are constantly shopping between institutions. They are most likely to attend the institution that gives them the best deal. Active collaboration between sending and receiving
institutions should be strong. This would benefit the student by preventing the loss of credits and allow them the possibility to graduate on time. Having MSU faculty and staff on the same page are huge advantages towards enrollment and increasing graduation rate. Credit evaluations are also an immense part of enrolling transfer students on our campus. Obtaining a credit evaluation “DARS” for prospective transfer students at MSU has historically been a slow process. The student must be admitted to the university prior to a credit evaluation being completed. This process can take up to 6 weeks. With this time lag, it can easily decrease the university’s enrollment. An Articulation agreement (AA) is another
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option for transfer students. AA’s have shown to be ineffective due to how time consuming they are for the small number of student whom utilize them.
I was disappointed to see only a handful of our top fifteen feeder schools responded to the survey. I was surprised that South Central or Normandale CC didn’t complete the survey. The survey results showed areas where there’s a need for improvement, specifically in transferring credits. As we know, there isn’t a quick solution to this issue due to several reasons (i.e. accreditation, pre-requisites for a program, etc.). The most helpful resources for sending institutions were equivalency guides, transfer specialists, and academic advisors. I was excited to read feedback on how sending institutions are advising transfer students depending on what the student plans on majoring and not just recommending students to complete an Associate’s degree. If advised wrong, this can waste students money by completing two year degrees when is not necessary. Often times the best option for a transfer student might be to transfer as soon as possible to assure the completion of the correct courses.
The most popular programs to transfer into continue to be Nursing, Business, and Education. As some institutions suggested in the survey, it would be very helpful for prospective transfer students to have a “one stop shop” or advising concierge. This specific area can dedicate time to assist transfer students as they transition to MSU.
I believe a general Advising Center could help alleviate some of the pressure that faculty and staff (specifically advisors) are dealing with on a daily basis. Transfer student numbers have been growing steady for the last five years. Since enrollment in our campus is extremely important, this could be a good area to utilize strategic funding. Another option would be to provide more help to student relations coordinators so they can dedicate more time assisting prospective students. Better training for advisors has always been a topic to rise up at different occasions. In the end my belief is that with enrollment growth, specifically in the non-traditional student group, more help is needed. It would be a great opportunity to make advising improvements in the near future. Although this will be a great challenge, it would benefit both our prospective/current students along with increasing our graduation rate.
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Suggestions:
U-SELECT IS NOT USED FOR SOME PROGRAMS THEREFORE TRANSFER IS
DIFFICULT FOR SOME STUDENTS IN SOME PROGRAMS
How do my credits transfer?
I don't deal with students that are transferring OUT of SCTCC as much as I do those transferring
in.
Making sure that everything transfers.
Lack of willingness on the part of MSU to see transfer equivalencies
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-Making sure both institutions are on the same page about what and how courses will transfer so
that it's seamless for the student. Making sure the articulation agreements are up to date
-Making sure the student connects with the right person (people) on MSU campus.
Housing Transfer of Credits Admission to specific programs
The biggest issue that we have/see is that an occasional course is not accepted by certain
programs at MSU, even though it shows as an equivalency. Also, not knowing about program
changes or major requirement changes, so our students are missing something they need when
they transfer.
Courses that don't transfer. We've had some courses that are not listed as equivalent and we've
had to send info to MSUM so they could be re-evaluated there. 2. Students don't get answers or
are confused by answers they receive from MSUM
Understanding major requirements (pre-req) will courses transfer?
The students do not always (hardly ever) know what they want for a major, so they take the AA
degree and fill in the blanks, but may not get the right gen Eds.
Conclusions Drawn --Kellian Clink
As I draw this project to a close, Angie has retired and it is the end of the summer, so I
am going to just do this final part individually, although I invite all the recipients of this
document to visit with Ramon or any of the Student Relations Coordinators to better understand
some of the issues around transfer.
First, I would encourage any reader with a stake in this issue to read the Van Wie book
on transfer students that is the final reference the bibliography below.
I feel I must describe my own vantage point. I have been a premajor advisor and really a
visitor, though a 20+ year one, to the SRC meetings every week. I have taught the First Year
Experience Seminars almost continually since they began. I have about 20 advisees formally
every year as well as their friends and roommates and all of my fraternity brothers. From that
perspective, I think the major problem with advising on our campus is that no one is tasked with
advocating for advising at the administrative level. Individual SRCs are fully engaged in their
own colleges, with tasks associated with academic warning taking up large parts of their
workload, with the daily work of advising students and keeping abreast of curricular changes in
their own colleges. While faculty are the advisors as soon as the student declares, they are often
overwhelmed with the pressing business of teaching, doing research, and participating in
departmental tasks. Many faculty also reported being self-trained or not trained in the survey we
did last year. There is no ONE person who is tasked with studying the overall success of
advising, understanding the needs, and advocating for the resources needed to accomplish the
university-wide advising tasks.
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Some of the issues outlined in this document point to solutions suggested in Flaga’s
studies of transfer students: “Learning Resources, Connecting, Familiarity, Negotiating, and
Integrating” that would only come from the highest level of the administration committing
resources to advising on campus holistically, including training of faculty, communication of
changing curriculum to the advisorsand someone to advocate for all the activities needed to
provide better connections between sending institutions and Minnesota State, Mankato. This
needs to include tools for curricular and campus understanding. I understand there are competing
needs for funding on campus, but having spent the last couple of years surveying advisees,
talking to advisees, and studying the literature on advising, I really feel that we could prioritize
advising more and improve our students’ experiences as well as perhaps acting as a means of
retaining students more effectively.
We need personnel to arrange for information sharing between our advisors and
sending institutions’ advisors, not only the transfer specialists but the actual advisors here and
there. We need resources committed to building an excellent and ever updated website that
reflects curricular and policy changes. We need people to arrange for and do more timely
transfer evals ready for orientation, more people who understand transfer issues to help out as
students are choosing courses at orientation, more people to advocate for the services indicated
in the student survey, such as welcome week activities, a peer mentoring program, a transfer
student seminar.
Looking at the data on page 12, about a third of students commit to a major relatively
late in their career. Would more career development center personnel help? I think so. I would
like to study this issue the coming year. My own theory is that students come in really not
understanding how to explore the three pieces they need to decide on a career: self-knowledge,
career-knowledge, and program knowledge. My own sense is that the pieces are too separated.
The career center is tasked with bits of the self knowledge and career info and the advisors with
program completion, but ideally, advisors would be able to at least discuss the connections
between the self-knowledge, career direction and program completion, including information
about job outlook, potential roadblocks to graduate program success, etc.
In our original study on advising, faculty expressed their frustrations with not having
enough time or enough rewards in place to devote time to advising although most of them
expressed a desire to do good advising with enough time devoted to visiting with the students.
The university needs to come up with resources to acknowledge and reward advising. Clark
Johnson, in the College of Social and Behavioral Sciences, used to reward good advising through
posters of the “best” advisors from each department as nominated by the students and a little
celebration but then his time for advising was cut and that event wasn’t possible anymore. It is
“little” things like this that would be very good ways, cheap way, of providing incentives for
good advising, which is good for the students. Transfer students in particular, perhaps, need
good advising, since they need to hit the ground running when they come in to complete a degree
within a couple of years.
I do hope this document can help the stakeholders understand a little better some of the
issues for transfer students.
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Submitted respectfully,
Kellian D. Clink
References
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Avakian, A. N., & Others, A. (1982). Race and sex differences in student retention at an urban university. College and University, 57(2), 160-165.
Bahr, P. (2008). Cooling out in the community college: What is the effect of academic advising on students’ chances of success? Research in Higher Education, 49(8), 704-732. doi:10.1007/s11162-008-9100-0
Broton, K. (2009). Increasing postsecondary enrollment: A literature review of the effectiveness of outreach program.
Retrieved 12/19/2011 from http://www.wilder.org/research.0.html?from=wilderresearch.org Calcagno, J.C, Bailey, T, Jenkins, D., Kienzl, G, and Leinbach, T. (2008) Community college student
success: What institutional characteristics make a difference? Economics of Education Review 27: 632-645.
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Farrell, E. F. (2007). Some colleges provide success coaches for students. The Education Digest, 73(3), 44-47.
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