Categorisation: ‘It does matter if you’re like a refugee or a migrant’

When I raised the subject of anti-Polish sentiment in an interview with Ryszard and Tomasz, the boys did not discuss any direct experiences. Rather, they attempted to distinguish their own positions as migrants from the status of other groups of

newcomers in the UK. The following extract leads on from a discussion about the way their stories of migration made the boys feel.

Extract 6.20 (S4: interview with Tomasz & Ryszard – Sara (SY); Ryszard (R); Tomasz (T))

647 SY: yeah. does it make you feel a bit different from like the English people born 648 here? or not particularly?

649 T: no 650 SY: no?

651 T: I think everyone is equal 652 SY: um-hm

653 T: that’s my point of view

654 SY: ok

655 T: doesn’t matter/ well. it does matter if you’re like a refugee or a migrant 656 SY: yeah

657 T: that. that does just make a difference 658 SY: ok. why does it make a difference?

659 R: um – let’s not go into that 660 SY: no. no = really –

661 T: = no. no!

662 SY: – I’m interested. why?

663 T: cos. cos like a = refugee – 664 R: = yeah

665 T: – can bomb you and a migrant is – 666 R: a migrant <correcting his pronunciation>

667 T: yeah. comes for a better life. not – just peacefully/ that’s my point of view 668 R: it’s like – some Polish people. they actually like – some people. like the. er.

669 refugees. cos after what they done in Paris and in Belgium. so we can’t. we 670 don’t like them and we. er. kind of get a bit angry that we have to work and 671 they just have to –

672 T: they just come in here. they’re on benefits = and –

673 R: = everything and then we have to work for it and they just get it for free just 674 cos their country’s in a war or something happened

I start by wondering whether the boys ‘feel a bit different’ in any way (line 647) from others in the UK. While at first Tomasz expresses the view that ‘everyone is equal’ (line 651), that there is no difference between Polish people and others in the UK, he then adjusts his stance slightly: ‘well. it does matter if you’re like a refugee or a migrant’ (line

655). When I ask Tomasz to explain, both he and Ryszard become defensive, and Ryszard hurriedly tries to shut down the conversation: ‘um – let’s not go into that’ (line 659). Ryszard’s interjection here suggests that the boys are aware this is a potentially controversial area. This chimes with van Dijk (1992), who avers that individuals who express negative attitudes in relation to minority groups are quite ‘aware of the fact that they may be understood as breaking the social norm of tolerance or acceptance’

(p.89). Nonetheless, I persevere, telling the boys, ‘I’m interested’ (line 662), at which point they start to expand on their views. Tomasz posits the opinion that a migrant

‘comes for a better life […] peacefully’ (line 667), unlike a refugee who, he implies, does not. Ryszard then elaborates on Tomasz’s comment by alluding to ‘what they done in Paris and in Belgium’ (line 669). The reference here is to the terrorist attacks on Paris and Brussels, in November 2015 and March 2016 respectively. Ryszard attributes these attacks to refugees and explains that this is one reason why ‘we don’t like them’ (line 670).

His allusion to the terrorist attacks and the way in which Ryszard blames the refugees may be seen to draw on several sources. One of these may be the UK media

discourse which conflated the potential threat of terrorists with the refugee crisis at the time, such as that found in newspaper articles e.g. Slack (2016) in the Daily Mail;

Batchelor (2016) in the Express. It appears that Ryszard and Tomasz feel it necessary to distinguish themselves as Polish migrants from those who were purported to have perpetrated such acts. The boys’ comments may be seen to echo tropes about terrorists and the increasing racism in Poland (see section 1.5); they can also be viewed in terms of racism and whiteness (see section 3.4). Fox (2013) notes the way in which individuals take ‘recourse to local tropes on terrorism’ which equate skin colour with terrorism (p.1876); this could also lie behind the comments made by Ryszard and Tomasz, and will be discussed further in Chapter 9.

The conversation with the boys then develops into a discussion about state benefits.

Extract 6.21 (S4: interview with Tomasz & Ryszard – Sara (SY); Ryszard (R); Tomasz (T))

687 R: and once. my parents told me that. well they once read in the. er. = paper – 688 SY: = yeah?

689 R: – or something. that. er. Polish people. lots of Polish people are on benefits 690 because they’re scared to say it to. to refugees and those kind of people 691 because they might do something to do them or something probably 692 SY: ok

693 T: one time. er. my Dad told me. that Polish people didn’t work – whole. well 694 maybe not all of them. but maybe mostly all Polish people in England stopped 695 working/ and it’s like. they’re earning much as in fabric income. or half. less/

696 so it’s like. I think Polish. er English people should like be proud of Polish 697 people coming in/ cos Polish people come in to work. not like the other people 698 that just come here –

699 R: just to get money. as much money as possible – 700 T: <interrupting> exactly! and not do much

701 R: and also. it’s like. er. last. on Polish news. last time. when there was the 702 Remembrance Day. erm. er. they didn’t like. for the people that still lived. as 703 in the soldiers. they didn’t actually. they never invite the Polish people or 704 anything/ so it’s kind of. it’s kind of like we. we. we helped them quite a lot in 705 that battle. and they don’t actually thank us for that/ and now they’re still not 706 thanking us for like working really well and being like normal people like 707 them/ and. er – it’s something like that

Here, the boys appear to be conflating a mixture of differing grievances and

discourses. One of these concerns the question of benefits. When the boys suggest that it is other people, not Poles, who are coming to the UK ‘just to get money’ (line 699), they can be seen to draw on the same discourse that is used about Polish migrants coming to the UK solely to take advantage of the benefit system (see section 2.4.4). Tomasz opines that ‘English people should like be proud of Polish people’ (lines 696-697); Ryszard then supports this by citing Remembrance Sunday and the Polish contribution to the allied victory in the Second World War. He conflates a lack of gratitude for this with the current situation where, he asserts, ‘they’re still not thanking us for like working really well’ (lines 705-706).

The discussion above also suggests the boys are drawing on things they have been told at home. Tomasz tries to repeat something ‘my Dad told me’ (line 693), while Ryszard alludes to something his parents have seen in the newspaper – ‘my parents told me that’ (line 687) – although he does not note which papers his parents read, and whether these are Polish or English publications. There also seems to be a certain amount of confusion: Tomasz mentions a situation where ‘Polish people didn’t work – whole’ (line 693); he later refers to something he calls ‘fabric income’ (line 695), without clarifying what he means. Thus the boys’ comments may be understood as an

amalgamation of views they have assimilated from other sources around them, be this the media or from family members.

In giving these accounts, moreover, the boys can be seen as seeking to assert their position as Poles. They demonstrate a pride in their Polish identity, and illustrate this through alluding to positive characterisations such as the hard-working Pole and the brave Polish soldier. Yet the boys also draw on ugly comparisons with others, be this through implying a link between refugees and terrorists (Extract 6.20), or in citing the threat ‘those kind of people’ allegedly pose to Poles over benefit claims (Extract 6.21,

line 690). In othering such individuals, the boys may be seen as drawing on similar practices to those identified by Fox (2013) in a discussion about racist practices amongst Hungarians and Romanians working in the UK. Fox argues that individuals draw on these tropes as a way of asserting themselves in response to the diminished status to which they find themselves relegated in the new country.

The question of how the adolescents view themselves in relation to other minority groups in the UK also emerges in discussions with Krystyna and Anna. Krystyna describes her reaction on first coming to the UK:

Extract 6.22 (S#1: interview at St. Ferdinand’s – Sara (SY); Krystyna (K))

612 K: […] there were like different cultures in the school whereas in Poland 613 literally <laughs> there’s just Polish people! and you barely ever get to see 614 someone who’s not Polish

615 SY: ok. did you find that strange when you first came here. that. to see other 616 cultures?

617 K: yeah I did

618 SY: had you expected that?

619 K: I didn’t expect that. no 620 SY: ok. how did you find it?

621 K: I found it quite strange that there was different people because I’ve never.

622 like. I don’t. I’m not meaning to be racist. but I’d never really seen like darker 623 people properly so I just found it weird that suddenly you come to a country 624 who’s – cos I was smaller – who are a country of white people and then 625 there’s black people here so I was just like. what’s going on?

At this point, Krystyna is presenting herself as a younger, more naïve individual: she puts her reaction down to the fact that she ‘was smaller’ (line 624). Nonetheless, her assumption that Britain would be ‘a country of white people’ (line 624) indicates Krystyna’s preconceptions about the place to which she was coming. This could be based on her own experiences within Poland, where she reports not having

encountered ‘like darker people properly’ (lines 622-623). Similar comments made by Anna are found in Appendix 5, Extract A.5. Such accounts reflect literature which suggests that migrants from Eastern Europe are unlikely to have encountered in Poland the heterogeneity found in Britain (Sales et al. 2008; Parutis 2011).

Later in the same interview, however, in a discussion about the frequent accusation of stealing jobs, Krystyna can be seen to change her position in relation to those she perceives as non-English. Her comments are reported below:

Extract 6.23 (S#1: interview at St. Ferdinand’s – Krystyna (K))

376 K: well I think it’s quite unfair that they’re blaming the immigrants cos. um.

377 there’s jobs like doctors for example where I can’t. I don’t. I never really see 378 like much of English doctors/ they’re usually Muslim dentists Muslim doctors 379 because they actually put up with the work you have to. go towards being a 380 doctor whereas peop – English people don’t do that sometimes and I think it’s 381 unfair that they’re blaming us for it because we’re putting the effort into being 382 in that career

Here Krystyna appears to have moved from othering ‘different people’ (Extract 6.22, line 621), as she does on arrival in the UK, to seeing them as individuals with whom she might align herself. In doing so, Krystyna draws on the us/them dichotomy

mentioned earlier: in this instance, ‘us’ (line 381) is taken to include Poles and others that Krystyna takes to be migrants, in contrast to ‘English people’ (line 380). Worthy of note is firstly the way that Krystyna has shifted in her positioning; and secondly, that she does not appear to countenance the idea that Muslims could also be English, but positions them as ‘immigrants’ (line 376).

The us/them distinction also prevails in discussions held about the forthcoming EU Referendum. These are presented in the following section.