G
u r u n a t h a n:
Yes, that he was in the right and the judges were in the wrong. Yes. He proved it, and having proved it:“All right. Because you are in power, all right, deal with me as you please.”
D
isciple:
It’s beyond martyrdom, surely.G
u r u n a t h a n:
Yes, yes. Certainly it is. W e ll...b u t there is absolutely nothing of the kind escaping the lips of Socrates. No.When the thing is handed over to him —the poison—he takes it in hand with a cheerful countenance. There was all the expres
sion of a man going to the happiest of all kingdoms. Well, it was with that expression on his face that he drank it. Well, what more is needed to show that Socrates has gone to the highest level? Though his instructions to other persons may have been at a lower level, his conduct clearly shows—and, in certain respects, upon certain points, his discussion proves—that he has reached the highest level. Oh yes!
D
isciple:
Has Gurunathan been able to find a hint of real statements of Truth in the Phaedo?G
u r u n a t h a n:
Yes. But here, on the way, I have some quarrel with him. It is not a quarrel, of course. It all depends upon the persons to whom he is addressing himself, and thereforeI cannot find fault with him in that way.
Well: the “virtue. What is virtue?” He comes to that point and he discusses it in the most clear manner. “What is virtue?”
Well, each one has his own impression about what virtue means, and he comes forward with all the features. W ell, this is virtue, this is virtue, etc___Well, he opposes them. So, each one of them is cornered. . . and then, then: “Please, explain what virtue is. ” “I am also in difficulties. I do not know.” You see? And, of course, there is a broad hint there—well, it evidently shows that it is not something acquired or it is not something that has been taught. It must come from beyond. So, virtue is something that comes from beyond. “What is it beyond? I don’t know.”
Well, let us take it that the soul has passed over these experi
ences before and it is a case of recollection. The recollection is there, and therefore you can’t say that you possess it, nor can you say that you do not possess it. So, it is not a case of, yes, a person having been taught, nor is it that he acquires it— in the present life. It is all some sym bol. . . occurs and then im
mediately you are put in mind of, of that something which you have perceived some time ago. W ell, it is in some such manner that it goes.
Well, I would have taken it, I would have said: W ell, virtue, if you come to that point, if you want to take up that point there in the Socrates level, in his level, I would say that it is something pertaining to the soul. W ell, the soul, as I understand it, will be certainly different from the soul as Socrates explains.
That is all the difference. And then it is something permanent, permanent. Well, it becomes limited and appears to be many, that is all. And therefore: this is a virtue, that is a virtue, etc.
So the many is explained in terms of that One. Well, I would have taken that position, but, whatever it is, that is nothing.
Well, it is not necessary for me to elaborate on that point.