The interview with Andrew

Andrew’s reply to my opening question about how he first became interested in social work was that it seemed ‘like a natural thing to me’ (line 5 below).

Andrew: I was originally going to do my nursing course but found the 1

concept of working on a ward horrific. And I umm always been really 2

interested in politics and things like that and I was quite left wing and 3

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into protesting and things like that when I was younger so it kind of 4

seemed like a natural thing to me 5

Lisa: Yeah. And so had you heard about social work, through your work 6

was it? 7

Andrew: Yeah, I’d met social workers. There’d been people who were 8

doing bank work where I was working that were doing the social work 9

degree and then a chap came who is one of my best friends now who 10

was actually doing his mental health nursing degree and he started it. He 11

started it, or he was going to start it the year after and he was like, “go

12

on, why don’t you do it, why don’t you do it?” and I was just “no, no, no,

13

no” but yeah, of course I should do it but I did an access course first 14

because I had left school without any qualifications at all, I left school at 15

fourteen with nothing so umm I did an access course first and that kind 16

of spring boarded me to doing the degree 17

Lisa: But it’s interesting, isn’t it that you could have done the nursing but 18

you there’s something about was there something about the social work 19

that you 20

Andrew: Yeah, I’ve never really been into authority or anything like that 21

hence the no qualifications and I’d done voluntary work on wards quite 22

for quite long periods of time. And I’d found that hierarchy between the 23

nurses and the sisters, doctors I found it really very difficult to tolerate 24

and umm I did a bit of bank work doing as an HCA [Health Care Assistant] 25

on wards and I could see the hierarchy and it just, you know, so it was 26

really only a brief kind of umm flirtation with doing nursing. And then I 27

remembered what it I remembered whether it was that I was going to 28

mental health nursing or umm general nursing that I’d have to cut my 29

teeth on the wards and that was just no. No way, no way 30

Lisa: And what was it about the social work that you thought would be 31

different to that? 32

Andrew: Well, it appealed to my sense of interest in sort of sociology in 33

general but politics it seemed more political it seemed more left wing. At 34

the time, not sure whether it’s like that now but umm it seemed like it 35

seemed to fit my ideological way of thinking much more than the clinical 36

aspects of nursing. It was more umm it was more it seemed more 37

abstract umm rather than routine, than fixed, you know, and it really 38

seemed to fit my brain a lot better. Yeah. 39

In his reply Andrew distinguishes between training to become a social worker and training to become a nurse. Whereas training to become a nurse on a ward was

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‘horrific’ (line 2), training to become a social worker was ‘natural’ (line 5). Here Andrew associates social work as connected with being ‘really interested in politics’ and being ‘quite left wing’ and ‘into protesting’ (lines 3-4). In his next reply, Andrew uses active voicing to depict one of his best friends, a mental health nurse, strongly encouraging him to train as a nurse [‘“go on, why don’t you do it, why don’t you do it?”’] with his equally strong refusal [‘I was just “no, no, no, no”’]. My comment implicitly demonstrates that I have recognised this notion that social work is ‘natural’ for Andrew, which I then immediately re-frame into a question [‘there’s obviously something about was there something about the social work that you’]. Again Andrew presents social work as associated with being anti-authoritarian (line 21). In contrast, nursing is hierarchical (and so authoritarian) which he found ‘really very difficult to tolerate’ (line 24). In the coda to this reply, Andrew reiterated that he could not work on the wards, using repetition to emphasise the strength of this view [‘I’d have to cut my teeth on the wards and that was just no. No way, no way’].

In his next reply, Andrew again portrays social work as associated with being ‘political’ and ‘left wing’ (line 34). Finally, Andrew depicts social work as congruent with his ‘way of thinking’ and his ‘brain’: ‘it seemed to fit my ideological way of thinking’ (line 36) and ‘it really seemed to fit my brain’ (line 39). Thus, once again, social work is presented as intrinsic to the self. Again, Andrew directly contrasts nursing and social work - social work is ‘ideological’ (line 36) and ‘abstract’ (line 38) whereas nursing is ‘clinical’ (line 36), ‘routine’ and ‘fixed’ (line 38). Like Eva, Andrew is delineating what is ‘real’ social work. My next question moved the focus of the interview on to the topic of social work training.

Lisa: That’s good. And when you went into the training, did you find that 1

it was how you’d seen it did you find that social work was as you’d 2

thought it was? 3

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely, I got it hook, line and sinker really, you know I 4

really did. Umm, err, you know, some of my friends who were nurses 5

would kind of ridicule me really you know 6

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Lisa: [laughs] 7

Andrew: They used to call me the social sniffer 8

Lisa [laughs] 9

Andrew: You know and [laughs] and things like that because I really and 10

it was kind of there but the whole concept of social justice and things like 11

that. That you know kind of the marginalisation process that happen 12

within society it was kind of like I knew that they were all there. But it 13

was quite unfocused and I didn’t sort of academic and theoretical point 14

of view really know that I didn’t really know how they were structured so 15

I kind of really I still today kind of I bought right into it 16

Lisa: Right, umm great. So people were kind of laughing at you for that? 17

Andrew: Yeah woolly tree hugging social worker 18

Lisa: [laughs] 19

Andrew: Yeah it’s just all the usual clichés and stereotypes I didn’t mind. 20

I didn’t mind them viewing me as that at all really. Yeah 21

In a key phrase illustrating the theme of social work as intrinsic to the self, Andrew states that: ‘I got it hook, line and sinker really, you know I really did’ (line 4). This idiom, which alludes to fishing, means that the person fell for something utterly and completely: not just swallowing the ‘bait’ (the hook) but the entire fishing

equipment (the line and the sinker). It is curious that Andrew uses this to describe becoming a social worker as the phrase is usually used to describe a person that has been ‘gullible’ and fallen for a ruse or a trick. Indeed Andrew goes on to describe his nurse friends as ridiculing him (line 6). Here I laugh at this ‘laughable’, an invitation to laughter. In another laughable Andrew describes the nurse friends as calling him the ‘social sniffer’ (line 8). Again, this is an interesting choice of words. Obviously, the ‘social’ is the key part of social work; the ‘sniffer’ part associates with sniffer dogs who are engaged in detection. Taken as a whole it seems to correspond to a person who interferes in people’s lives; being a snoop or busybody. The latter are common derogatory descriptions of social workers although the term ‘social sniffer’ seems a fonder, more affectionate phrase. Andrew laughs too (line 10) which

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demonstrates that he was not offended by this description. For Andrew, knowledge of concepts such as social justice and the marginalisation process pre-existed [‘it was kind of there…I knew that they were all there’] albeit in a ‘quite unfocused’ way. It was through social work training that enabled him to develop an ‘academic and theoretical point of view’ of how these concepts are structured. In another key phrase which aligns with ‘I got it hook line and sinker’ Andrew describes that ‘I bought right into it’ (line 16). Like Ed above, this portrays social work as a vocation and not simply a job. Andrew depicts himself as already ‘naturally’ predisposed to the social work way of thinking and seems to be asserting that during the training he became totally immersed in a social work identity. In reply to my question, Andrew produces another laughable; his friends’ description of him as a ‘woolly tree hugging social worker’ (line 18). My laughter demonstrates that I have recognised that this is a laughable and not troubles-talk (Jefferson 1984); and Andrew validates this view through talk [‘I didn’t mind. I didn’t mind them viewing me as that at all really. Yeah’]. Thus rather than being offended at these ‘clichés and stereotypes’ (line 20), Andrew finds them funny, suggesting that he is secure in this identity as

demonstrated in the strong affirmation. Later in the interview, Andrew returns to talking about social work training:

Andrew: And this is going to sound a bit lofty but I think that training it’s 1

like you’re breathing you don’t know you’re breathing, but you know it’s 2

there. Ok, so all of that stuff you get taught just sits there in your brain 3

and it should direct everything that you do and it should eventually 4

become second nature, really 5

Andrew’s reply contains two more key phrases from the theme social work as intrinsic to the self. Firstly, social work becomes as fundamental or as natural as breathing [‘it’s like you’re breathing you don’t know you’re breathing, but you know it’s there’]. In the second key phrase, social work becomes embodied [‘all of that stuff you get taught just sits there in your brain and it should direct everything that you do and it should eventually become second nature’]. Social work is so intrinsic to the self that it is like breathing; is embodied, directing ‘everything that you do’;

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becoming ‘second nature’ (i.e. it is so very natural). Rawls (2006 p.5) argued that ‘actors themselves, while in the natural attitude, take these details for granted and thus are not aware of the details of the practices they enact’. In the final excerpt from the interview with Andrew, he is talking about nurses being able to become AMHPs. I ask if he thinks that the competences required to be an AMHP remain social work values:

Andrew: Yes and I think that’s still imbued within the Mental Health Act 1

that’s why it’s hard really though it’s difficult to get values in a legal 2

prescription, you know, they are there really and it’s that thing about the 3

relationships with the health trusts and I think, that worries me. 4

Lisa: About being independent, not being independent? 5

Andrew: The level of independence and the, it’s attitudinal as well, you 6

know, illness focused umm “it’s obvious someone needs to be sectioned,

7

isn’t it?” you know, but it doesn’t preclude you from seeking 8

alternatives. Some people are obviously very very ill and need to be in 9

hospital but it’s that thing about what’s running in the background all the 10

time, what you should be thinking all the time, you know, and I think 11

that’s what’s missing, really from them. 12

Again Andrew is comparing nurses and social workers but does not have to spell this out, rather it is expressed indexically. He begins by portraying nurses as less

independence and as working within the medical model. Whilst nurses are illness focused and automatically think that someone should be ‘sectioned’ [admitted to hospital using section 2 or 3 of the Mental Health Act), social workers ‘seek

alternatives’ (line 7-8). Here Andrew is referring to the duty of an AMHP to look for alternatives to hospital admission. The Code of Practice (2008 4.51) states that the role of AMHPs is to ‘provide an independent decision about whether or not there are alternatives to detention under the Act, bringing a social perspective to bear on their decision’. Andrew presents thinking about alternatives to admission as intrinsic to the social work self: it should be ‘running in the background all the time, what you should be thinking all the time’ (line 10-11). It resonates with his earlier phrase about social work as sitting there in your brain, directing everything that you do. The

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coda to the reply is that this is missing from ‘them’ (line 12): again this is an indexical expression but we both know he is referring to nurses.

This analysis of extracts from the interview with Andrew has endeavoured to illustrate the theme that social work is intrinsic to the self. The final part of this section will now expand on this theme through an analysis of extracts from the interview with John.