Interview with Jose Marcio Vasconcellos

Representing: LabEco at the Engineer Faculty of UFRJ Date: April 3^rd 2014

Location: Labeco COPPE, Bloco I 205, Ilha do Fundao, RJ

Summary of interview

The Labeco and other labs at COPPE conducts research for the government or private companies, like Petrobras. Agencies such as FINEP may give money support if the firm applies for a research proposal. Sometimes the government comes to UFRJ and

asks for something that their experts see the need to do research on. He exemplifies that the traffic in Rio is very bad (actually the third worst in the world!), so they want research to be done to solve/improve this problem.

In addition to this, the R&D programs may be proposed through open calls twice a year. If, for example the professor knows an interesting field of study, they might grant him money to follow his idea. The ANPs 1% pool of money can be spent on projects where the university cooperates with the university.

He neglects that there has been a shift in favor towards R&D from the government.

He thinks they have always has provided financial support.

Industrially, Petrobras is the exception because they put money and that’s why they are in a good position in the market. He has the impression that the others firms spend money on R&D that they use elsewhere, or do the R&D elsewhere. Common to all is the desire to make money on oil, if they have to spend money on R&D to do that, they will.

I argue that the global companies in the technology park URFJ do have R&D centers in all major hotspots, even in locations where it is not required.

He replies that because the oil in brasil really belongs to petrobras, brazil differs distinctly from rest of the world. This scares firms from investing resources in R&D.

if they come along for the exploration, they have to establish manufacturing because they are joining efforts with Petrobras. A few is not enough to create a movement.

I ask what role the Labeco fill that CENPES cannot do themselves. UFRJ have knowledge that CENPES do not have often related to engineering, and sometimes they ask the university simply because they do not have time/people to do it. CENPES do much time consuming basic design, but their main partner is by far CENPES and more than 80% of their products belong to Petrobras.

I ask about the intellectual property rules. A specialized contract is formed prior to the R&D program. The foundation takes care of this and we split with Petrobras. Register together, but Petro is not interested to develop this. They only need to use it to extract oil, they are not interested in owning or selling this patent.

About the Rio Subsea cluster he illustrates by saying “sometimes it is good, but not necessary. Sometimes it is necessary, but not good”, but he believes that it is necessary and that it will attract companies. He argues that Brazil and Rio can copy Norwegian system of cluster development, but it will not work here because we do not have the same people. He underlines that education is key, elementary education.

It is a cultural problem and you can change it by education. In general they [the people I assume] are looking for money for themselves, not the country. He tells a story about Japanese business culture shaped by the need to act self-sustainable given its geographical features amongst others. The message is that Japanese range the importance of feelings towards different institutions in the following order: The first priority is the country, second comes the company (Japanese people rarely switch jobs for instance), third family, fourth yourself. In brazil it is the exact opposite.

I argue that foreign companies bring their business model so some extent, which might be more accustomed to R&D budgeting. He agrees and thinks that this is what is happening now, however very slowly. It is not easy to work together (GE and Petrobras example) and it is taking time.

He has one example of technology developed in cooperation with Petrobras for the past six years, and it will soon be tried in the north of coast north of Brazil. However, due to security surrounding the product he cannot mention its use. He claims there is possibility it can be used everywhere in Brazil, and that Petrobras has no intention to own the patent, just employ the technology.

Better co-operation may be created through general improvement in education. He thinks that they are currently doing well and cannot think of any specific

improvements in communication between units. It is not long ago that industry was not allowed in the Ilha do Fundao, and now there is increasing interest. The main issue to solve the education. The continuing learning program are mostly people (90%) that have experience from the industry. Sometimes paid by the company. As a digression, He is invited to participate in Distance learning (e-learning) with students from Norway with connection to Huston as well. Do role in further promotion of their students to firms. Some student went to the techincubator and now they have their

own company. He assumes there exist around 20, but he doesn’t know how many startups died.

The major importance to attract foreign companies are technology, partnership, experience and education. Petrobras are stimulation to get to know each other and attract firms because they are dependent on a supply chain. The firms establish centers in the tech park to stay close to the other companies. The university have moved the labs to the technological park, open to the firms. They actually had the first tank with wave maker etc. like in Trondheim, but deeper! FMC have subsea lab.

FINEP has a policy if you want to get the money, you have to be associated with a company. Before the government gave the money directly to the university, now we have to be together with the companies.

He refuses to admit that the universities are playing too big of a role in R&D in brazil, while also stating that they do not have research institutions. He remembers that before he had to offer ideas to the companies, but now the companies come to UFRJ because they have seen that they can bring result important for them. He concludes that the activity is growing, that this is only the beginning and they are doing it together with the university.

He said that Petrobras and FINEP are two contacts very important to get the whole picture.