• No results found

The
 chapter
 now
 explores
 the
 master/apprentice
 system
 of
 training
 researchers.
 In
 this
 section
the
findings
are
split
into
disciplines.
The
area
was
explored
with
the
questions:


Please
describe
any
formal
instruction
you
were
given
about
the
publishing


process.
 (If
 there
 was
 none,
 please
 describe
 how
 you
 found
 out
 what
 you
 know)
Are
you
involved
in
any
formal
or
informal
mentoring
or
training
process
for
 young
researchers
to
‘show
them
the
publishing
ropes’?

 
 It
should
be
noted
that
of
all
the
responses
in
this
research,
the
experiences
described
here
 of
the
interviewee’s
time
as
a
student
have
the
least
inference
for
their
home
institution.
 The
interviewees
ranged
from
early
to
very
late
career
researchers,
so
these
experiences
 occurred
 all
 over
 the
 world,
 in
 a
 period
 ranging
 from
 the
 1960s
 to
 as
 recently
 as
 a
 few
 years
ago.
 
 A
general
observation
about
the
responses
received
on
this
topic
is
that
Australia
appears
 to
be
worse
at
the
master/apprentice
system
than
the
US.
One
computer
scientist
said:
 …
in
the
US,
because
of
the
way
the
tenure
process
works
particularly,
there
is
 enormous
pressure
to
publish
and
publish
at
quality
venues.
There
is
a
much
 stronger
 sense
 of
 quality
 venues
 are
 and
 where
 impact
 lies
 and
 people
 are



 178

much
 more
 driven
 towards
 getting
 those
 publications
 out
 the
 door.
 It
 is
 very
 intense,
much
more
so
than
here.
So
people
play
the
game
very
thoughtfully.



A
sociologist
described
the
different
culture
in
the
US:
“I
compare
myself
to
colleagues
in
 US
universities
where
they
are
typically
rewarded
with
every
publication,
each
one
is
an
 increase
 in
 salary”.
 This
 relationship
 between
 publication
 and
 money
 was
 noted
 by
 another
computer
scientist:


The
 reward
 process
 in
 Australia
 is
 not
 as
 straightforward
 or
 proportional
 as
 the
US
system.
Here
if
you
have
lots
of
publications
you
can
apply
for
money
 from
the
government.
The
amount
you
get
is
not
enough
to
go
to
conferences.
 You
need
to
produce
a
lot
to
get
a
small
amount
of
money,
not
enough
to
get
 throughput.
 You
 need
 to
 collaborate
 to
 sustain
 publication.
 Now
 I
 seldom
 publish
 alone
 –
 we
 team
 up
 funding
 –
 this
 affects
 the
 direction
 of
 research.
 I
 don’t
need
any
other
collaboration,
I
need
money
to
go
to
conferences.
With
12‐ 13
publications
[in
a
year]
I
can
go
to
half
to
two
thirds
of
them.


Formal training offered by universities

The
 Computer
 Science
 department
 at
 UNSW
 offers
 a
 formal
 training
 course13
 to
 PhD
 students
in
research
techniques
which
includes
writing
papers.
While
this
appears
to
be
a
 step
 in
 the
 right
 direction,
 one
 interviewee
 had
 attended
 the
 course
 and
 not
 found
 it
 helpful:


It
teaches
students
how
to
present,
write
and
read.
I
did
the
course
myself
but
I
 didn’t
 find
 it
 useful.
 They
 would
 give
 pages
 from
 a
 book
 about
 writing
 academically.
It
wasn’t
practical
enough.
When
I
did
it
there
were
20
students
 and
one
teacher.
There
was
nothing
about
impact
factor
and
citation.



One
 interviewee
 suggested
 a
 problem
 with
 the
 course
 might
 be
 when
 it
 is
 given
 to
 the
 students:
 “the
 Research
 Methods
 course
 is
 done
 too
 early,
 they
 aren’t
 into
 their
 topic
 enough
yet
to
benefit
from
it”.


The
Australian
National
University
(ANU)
also
runs
short
courses
about
academic
writing
 and
publishing
through
its
Academic
Skills
and
Learning
Centrexli.
Not
one
of
the
people
 interviewed
at
ANU
(in
any
discipline)
mentioned
this
service,
which
could
mean
that
they
 are
either
unaware
of
it,
don’t
consider
it
to
be
of
value,
or
did
not
connect
that
what
we
 were
 discussing
 is
 the
 sort
 of
 training
 the
 Centre
 offers.
 One
 Computer
 Science
 








interviewee
 suggests
 Centre
 for
 Academic
 Development
 and
 Educational
 Methods
 (CEDAM)xlii
courses
to
students.
CEDAM
offers
courses
to
supervisors,
but
not
courses
to
 students
about
their
research
process.


Learning the ropes, Chemistry

As
discussed
in
Chapter
4,
of
the
three
disciplines
explored
in
this
work,
Chemistry
is
the
 discipline
that
best
fits
the
description
of
a
‘hard
science’,
and
the
apprenticeship
system
is
 still
entrenched
in
this
discipline:


I
don’t
see
they
are
fully
fledged
until
they
have
finished
the
remainder
of
their
 apprenticeship.
Even
when
they
get
to
the
point
of
a
more
senior
fellowship
in
 my
 game
 you
 need
 quite
 a
 few
 pairs
 of
 hands.
 A
 straightforward
 idea
 might
 take
 six
 months
 to
 test
 and
 bring
 to
 some
 form
 of
 success.
 They
 need
 to
 establish
a
small
group
to
do
anything.



One
 result
 of
 this
 system
 is
 the
 interviewees
 did
 not
 necessarily
 receive
 any
 instruction
 about
 how
 to
 publish
 because
 their
 supervisors
 had
 done
 all
 the
 work
 for
 them.
 As
 one
 Chemist
described:
“When
I
was
a
PhD
student
my
supervisor
would
write
the
papers,
let
 me
have
a
look
at
them
and
we
would
argue
the
toss
about
various
things
but
he
did
all
the
 writing”.
This
was
not
uncommon
as
another
explained:
“My
PhD
supervisor
was
possibly
 the
most
prolific
publisher
in
the
world.
He
used
to
write
them
all
himself.
I
wrote
most
 papers
 after
 my
 PhD
 was
 finished.
 My
 post
 doc
 supervisor
 I
 worked
 most
 with”.
 Others
 had
 had
 more
 help
 from
 their
 post‐doc
 supervisors,
 with
 one
 saying:
 “the
 postdoc
 is
 driven
 by
 supervisors.
 I
 think
 you
 learn
 on
 the
 job,
 I
 wrote
 early
 papers,
 with
 my
 supervisor
doing
it
jointly.
Some
supervisors
want
to
be
the
first
author”.
Another
said:

 …
when
I
was
a
PhD
my
supervisor
had
a
policy
of
writing
papers.
Writing
from
 scratch
as
a
postdoctoral
fellow,
I
copied
my
supervisor’s
style.
No
training
in
 writing.
It
has
never
been
a
problem.
I
know
what
referees
expect.
It’s
not
hard
 to
work
out.
Overall
my
rejection
rate
hasn’t
changed
…
My
experience
was
I’ll
 produce
a
rough
draft
and
my
supervisor
gave
me
a
finished
draft.

 


One
 chemist
 described
 informal
 training,
 where
 their
 ‘superb’
 PhD
 and
 post‐doc
 supervisors
had
explained
“the
way
they
were
thinking
of
how
to
make
a
paper
exciting
 and
how
to
choose
a
journal”.
This
researcher
would,
“give
them
the
manuscript
and
they
 would
 come
 back
 with
 more
 red
 than
 black.
 It
 taught
 me
 by
 the
 seat
 of
 my
 pants
 of
 learning
 how
 to
 write
 a
 good
 paper”.
 Another
 researcher
 said
 they
 had
 experienced:
 “much
 discussion
 where
 the
 article
 was
 going
 and
 why.
 At
 the
 time
 I
 was
 not
 sure
 if
 I
 understood,
but
it
was
there.”
Including
the
chemistry
student
in
discussions
about
where



 180

a
 paper
 would
 be
 sent
 was
 another
 effective
 way
 of
 instructing
 students
 in
 the
 system
 described
by
interviewees.



Other
 interviewees
 indicated
 that
 they
 had
 not
 had
 any
 specific
 discussion
 about
 the
 relative
worth
of
journals,
but
the
chemists
appeared
to
be
far
less
concerned
about
this
 than
 the
 computer
 scientists.
 One
 said:
 “With
 journals
 affecting
 career
 I
 was
 given
 no
 information
 about
 it.
 People
 in
 Chemistry
 might
 obtain
 information
 subliminally.
 I
 can’t
 recall
a
time
when
I
didn’t
know
journals’
relative
worth”.
Another
explained:
“I
was
not
 taught
[where
to
send
a
paper]
in
particular,
you
learn
how
work
is
valued”.
Yet
another
 also
indicated
a
lack
of
concern:



I
don’t
think
anyone
has
ever
told
me
about
publishing.
The
way
I
learnt
most
 about
 publishing
 is
 reading
 other’s
 papers
 –
 by
 osmosis.
 It
 is
 obvious
 what’s
 involved
when
writing,
you
get
info
for
authors
–
first
or
last
issue
on
how
to
 write
paper
eg:
how
many
pages
it’s
got
etc.



Guiding others, Chemistry

One
result
of
the
apprentice
system
in
Chemistry
is
that
often
the
students
do
not
actually
 write
 papers.
 As
 one
 chemist
 explained:
 “On
 one
 three
 year
 project
 it
 is
 normal
 not
 to
 write
 any
 papers
 till
 the
 end
 or
 close
 to
 the
 end.
 Very
 few
 [students]
 have
 been
 able
 to
 write
a
coherent
paper.
Four
or
five
produced
a
pretty
good
draft”.
It
may
be
many
years
 and
students
may
have
several
papers
on
which
they
are
listed
as
an
author
before
they
 actually
undertake
the
writing
of
a
paper.

 
 While
PhDs
might
write
some
of
the
paper,
sometimes
the
supervisor
finds
it
easier
if
they
 do
the
work,
“the
quite
tricky
part
of
paper
–
journals
are
quite
picky
about.
It
speeds
up
 the
process
if
we
get
it
right
at
start
[so
I
do
it]”.
Another
interviewee
said
of
PhD
students:
 “They
write
the
thesis
I
write
the
paper
…
In
post
doc
they
are
writing
under
supervision,
 they
still
draft”.
One
described
that
they
were,
“writing
up
student’s
work
and
publishing
 it”.
This
gives
the
students,
“standing
and
research
funding
…
The
real
barrier
is
getting
 students
to
write
a
paper.
But
they
need
to
do
it
and
need
to
be
writing
a
thesis
at
the
end.
 I
talk
to
them
about
it
all
the
time”.
 
 There
appears
to
be
a
split
in
the
attitude
of
the
chemists
about
whether
their
role
is
to
 teach
 students
 to
 write
 or
 not.
 Some
 interviewees
 spend
 time
 instructing
 their
 students
 including
the
technique
of
bringing
papers
to
meetings
for
discussions:


My
instruction
to
others
mirrors
my
own
experience
–
except
no‐one
I
worked
 with
had
a
strict
regime
of
bringing
papers
to
research
meetings.
I
hope
they


learn
how
to
write
papers
as
well.
I
am
a
bit
more
structured
about
it.
When
 they
 write
 a
 paper,
 I
 sit
 down
 with
 them
 “this
 is
 how
 I
 approach
 it”.
 Advise
 them
 how
 to
 do
 it.
 Figure
 first,
 structure
 of
 the
 introduction.
 I
 give
 them
 a
 structure
to
work
from.



Many
 lecturers
 and
 supervisors
 are
 helping
 students
 by
 redrafting
 their
 work.
 One
 explained:
“If
my
students
produce
a
draft
I’ll
cover
it
in
red
ink.
I
expect
them
to
write
 their
own
papers.
We
go
through
a
series
of
revisions…
I
think
my
students
should
learn
to
 write”.
Another
said
they
ask
their
students
to
draft
papers
that
they
rework:
“The
difficult
 part
of
paper
for
students
is
the
introduction
and
the
conclusion.
I
go
through
with
a
red
 pencil
–
I
limit
that
when
it
becomes
better
to
redraft.
I
give
it
back
for
comments”.

 
 Other
interviewees
said
they
used
the
writing
of
papers
with
their
students
as
a
teaching
 method
that
helped
organise
thoughts
and
provided
fodder
for
the
student’s
thesis:
“The
 way
I
supervise
is
I
try
to
get
students
to
write
papers.
They
should
have
3‐4
papers
…
it
is
 what
the
PhD
is
about”.
The
papers
produced
in
this
process
can
be
used
in
the
PhD:
 I
say
to
my
students
there
is
a
real
rigour
that
comes
with
writing
articles
for
 journals
and
if
we
do
that
writing
ahead
of
the
production
of
their
thesis,
that
 essentially
the
article
could
become
the
backbones
of
a
particular
chapter
in
the
 thesis.
It
also
forces
both
of
us,
myself
and
the
student,
to
think
deeply
about
 the
research
…
I
find
it
a
very
important
process
for
all
sorts
of
reasons.

 
 Some
Chemistry
interviewees
did
not
spend
any
time
instructing
their
students
on
how
to
 write,
preferring
to
write
the
papers
themselves.
One
explained:
“The
efficient
way
is
for
 the
 CI
 [chief
 investigator]
 to
 do
 it.
 It
 is
 a
 sort
 of
 osmosis
 for
 students,
 they
 see
 what
 is
 involved”.
Another
chemist
said
that
the
students
do
the
bench
work
for
projects
they
had
 designed
 and
 obtained
 funding
 for.
 The
 chemist
 then
 takes:
 “prime
 responsibility
 for
 communicating
 results
 of
 work
 …
 I
 write
 the
 introduction,
 discussion
 and
 conclusion.
 I
 submit
and
deal
with
the
referee’s
comments”.
Taking
all
responsibility
for
publications,
 even
 those
 generated
 from
 the
 PhD
 student’s
 research,
 was
 described
 as
 a
 matter
 of
 convenience
by
several
Chemistry
interviewees:
“On
the
whole
it
is
easier
for
me
to
write
 paper
from
scratch”.
 
 When
describing
helping
students
learn
the
craft
of
publication,
the
issue
of
determining
 where
to
send
papers
was
not
discussed
as
much,
only
a
few
chemists
mentioned
it.
One
 was
very
vague,
saying:
“We
have
probably
talked
about
where
it
needs
to
be
sent”.
This
 could
 possibly
 be
 because
 unlike
 some
 other
 disciplines,
 the
 journals
 in
 Chemistry
 are



 182

very
well
defined.
One
chemist
said:
“If
students
are
writing
a
paper
we
discuss
possible
 places
for
publication.
In
some
cases
we
do
make
decisions
in
advance
of
writing
–
where
 we’d
like
to
aim
for”.


Learning the ropes, Sociology

The
 Sociology
 interviewees
 indicated
 there
 had
 been
 very
 little
 mentoring
 from
 their
 supervisors.
One
said:
“No
I
didn’t
get
a
leg
up
from
my
PhD
supervisor,
it
was
pretty
much
 this
is
the
bird‐bath,
now
you
learn
to
swim”.
Another
said:
“I
don’t
think
my
supervisors
 ever
 assisted.
 They
 probably
 said
 you
 need
 to
 turn
 it
 into
 articles
 but
 they
 didn’t
 show
 me”.
This
lack
of
mentoring
has
resulted
in
at
least
some
sociologists
having
a
slow
start
to
 their
careers,
as
one
said:


It
took
me
years
to
find
out
the
conference
papers
didn’t
count.
I
was
producing
 about
 10
 papers
 a
 year,
 initially
 to
 groups
 like
 Aborigines.
 Professor
 [name]
 wrote
a
book
–
cited
me
as
an
unpublished
paper.
I
never
had
any
mentoring
…


I
only
just
realised
in
the
last
week
that
editing
doesn’t
count
for
DEST14.



This
 person
 sought
 assistance
 to
 find
 out
 about
 the
 publishing
 process
 (a
 decade
 after
 embarking
on
their
career),
which
was
clear
and
unequivocal
once
requested.

 
 One
early
career
interviewee
was
still
unclear
about
the
issue
of
making
strategic
choices
 about
publications:
“Impact
factors
–
I
have
not
heard
of
them.
I
know
there
are
scorings
 of
access
of
journals.
Another
recent
bit
of
advice
was
to
get
the
administrator
to
give
you
 a
rating
of
social
science
journals”.
Despite
the
lack
of
direct
instruction,
some
sociologists
 had
 had
 encouragement
 from
 supervisors.
 One
 said:
 “With
 thesis
 publication
 there
 was
 encouragement
 in
 the
 school.
 I
 sent
 off
 proposals
 to
 publishers.
 The
 first
 publisher
 I
 approached
was
Oxford
–
they
ended
up
dropping
it
but
the
editorial
advice
was
good”.
 


In
 the
 absence
 of
 instruction
 from
 their
 supervisors,
 many
 interviewees
 had
 looked
 elsewhere
 for
 advice.
 Some
 people
 described
 friends
 helping
 them.
 For
 example:
 “I
 got
 involved
 with
 [name]
 who
 was
 more
 into
 publishing
 …
 He
 and
 I
 published
 a
 few
 things
 together
…
But
it
took
a
while”.
Another
said
they
had
spoken;
“to
a
friend
about
a
paper.
 She
said
send
it
somewhere
worthwhile.
She
gave
me
advice
about
whether
to
send
to
a
 reputable
 journal
 and
 risk
 being
 knocked
 back
 or
 less
 reputable
 and
 get
 published”.
 Sometimes
their
friends
took
the
role
of
mentor,
for
example:



When
I
was
starting
out
I
had
a
friend
a
couple
of
years
ahead
of
me,
who
was
 doing
his
PhD.
He
used
to
keep
on
his
desk
a
copy
of
Ulrich’s.
And
Ulrich’s
is
the











international
 classification
 of
 journals
 by
 subject
 and
 title.
 And
 [name]
 was
 a
 spectacular
 publisher.
 Spectacular.
 And
 what
 he
 did,
 everything
 he
 wrote
 he
 went
through
Ulrich’s
until
he
found
someone
who
would
publish
it.


In
 other
 cases,
 the
 review
 process
 from
 the
 journal
 or
 publisher
 provided
 the
 feedback
 needed
 to
 write
 more
 effectively.
 Indeed,
 for
 one
 interviewee,
 “My
 first
 publication
 was
 encouraged
by
the
editor
of
a
journal”.
Others
have
relied
on
the
comments
in
the
reviews:


My
 first
 review
 had
 some
 suggestions
 to
 what
 [I
 was]
 saying
 I
 so
 wrote
 back
 asking
 him
 to
 be
 a
 co‐author.
 We
 incorporated
 stuff
 and
 put
 him
 in
 as
 secondary
author.
…
It
was
a
good
experience,
he
was
a
very
generous
man.
It
 must
have
taken
time.
…
It
doesn’t
happen
any
more
‐
people
don’t
have
time
to
 be
generous.

 
 The
value
of
being
rejected
was
described
by
a
couple
of
interviewees
as
a
way
to
find
out
 what
was
and
was
not
acceptable
for
publication.
One
interviewee
described
being:
“very
 lucky,
 my
 first
 three
 or
 four
 articles
 were
 accepted
 immediately.
 Then
 I
 got
 rejections.
 That’s
when
I
started
to
think
more
strategically.
I
talked
to
colleagues”.
 
 One
sociologist
who
had
had
no
instruction
for
“the
jump
from
PhD
to
publishable
paper”
 said
they:
“learnt
by
sending
stuff
off.
Papers
were
accepted
with
really
major
changes
and
 I
worked
it
out.
Probably
one
big
mistake
was
silly
decisions
about
where
to
send
things”.
 They
were
not
the
only
interviewee
who
described
being
over‐ambitious
about
where
to
 send
things,
with
another
saying:


I
went
for
Science
and
Social
Medicine
which
is
the
biggest
international,
and
got


roundly
 beaten
 up,
 very
 roundly
 beaten
 up.
 Which
 teaches
 you
 an
 awful
 lot
 about
what
you
can
get
away
with
saying
and
not
saying
at
that
level.



Only
one
sociologist
described
being
given
specific
advice:


The
 advice
 I
 was
 given
 when
 I
 was
 a
 young
 scholar
 was
 publish
 anywhere,
 anytime
 and
 start
 leaving
 it
 off
 the
 CV
 as
 you
 get
 more
 mature
 and
 highlight
 only
 the
 good
 internationals.
 And
 I
 think
 that
 is
 probably
 generically
 true.
 I
 don’t
know
how
many
people
start
leaving
things
off
but
I
certainly
do.
I
have
 things
published
that
were
run
off
on
Romero
presses
that
you
wouldn’t
want
 to
own
up
to
any
more.




 184

Guiding others, Sociology

Encouraging
 publication
 in
 Sociology
 is
 complicated
 by
 the
 emphasis
 on
 publishing
 monographs
as
well
as
papers.
Part
of
the
difficulty
is
the
nature
of
the
research:


In
the
social
sciences
it
makes
it
difficult
to
hive
off
part
of
the
work
and
get
it
 published.
It
is
easier
to
do
in
the
physical
sciences
and
be
co‐authors
on
paper.
 It
is
an
issue
that
should
be
addressed.



That
 said,
 the
 people
 interviewed
 seemed
 to
 be
 encouraging
 their
 own
 students.
 One
 explained:
“If
I
think
[a
student’s]
work
is
publishable
I
put
in
a
lot
of
energy.
I
talk
to
them
 about
which
part
is
publishable
…
what
the
reader
would
be
interested
in.
I
advise
where
 to
publish”.
A
couple
of
individuals
I
spoke
to
in
Sociology
had
undertaken
to
teach
their
 students
 ‘the
 ropes’.
 For
 example
 a
 peer
 review
 training
 program
 was
 described
 in
 the
 section
 on
 Peer
 Review
 in
 the
 last
 chapter.
 Another
 Sociology
 interviewee
 mentioned
 a