Primary data analysis – external stakeholders 1 Interview with fire services

Interview – fire service – Metropolitan Fire and Emergency Board (MFB)

The fire services for the majority of metropolitan Melbourne are provided by the Metropolitan Fire and Emergency Board or the MFB. There were no contacts made with the Country Fire Authority, as contact with the MFB was deemed sufficient. The interview was conducted with a senior commander at the MFB (Refer Appendix 4.2). The results of the interview were as follows:

Q1. Does the MFB have any special regulations or rules regarding enclosed shopping centres?

Reply: „There are no special rules governing enclosed shopping centres. Commercial buildings must conform to the Building Codes Australia compliance regulations‟.

Q2. How does the MFB review the entry/exit points in commercial buildings?

Reply: „The MFB does not review the entry/exit points as such. However, the Fire Protection Association of Australia has been developing guidelines in this area. The MFB understands there have been some studies by Victoria University on the entry/exit point questions‟.

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Q3. Would the MFB like to see Victoria have the same regulations as Queensland? Reply: „The MFB believes the current system as it operates in Victoria is good. This is a political issue and as such needs to be referred to a higher authority. However, there will always be methods of improving the systems and processes. This would include increased responsibility for fire marshals‟.

Q4. Would the MFB like to oversee the training in major enclosed shopping centres at least once a year?

Reply: ‘There is no legal power available to the MFB to oversee the training in shopping centres. The responsibility remains with the building manager‟.

Conclusions to interview with MFB

The fire services treat all commercial buildings in the same manner. However, it could be argued that not all commercial buildings are the same and need to be treated as such. MFBadvised that the fire services wish to not be involved with training on the same scale as the professional organisations. The interview with the MFB commander was constructive. However, the MFB is a regulated body and follows both regulations and is required to follow certain protocols. The answers to the questions were general in nature. The fire services follow the regulations and act in that manner. They are answerable to the state government for all fire risk matters. They also liaison with the Country Fire Authority of Victoria in fire risks in urban areas in which the Country Fire Authority is involved. (www.mfb.vic.gov.au)

6.5.2 Interview with insurance consultants

An interview was arranged with a leading insurance company (Refer Appendix 4.3). The following questions were put to the principal of the risk services. They reflect the issues that confront the providers of insurance with respect to enclosed shopping centres.

Q1. Enclosed shopping centres are major commercial buildings. Are there any special issues with enclosed shopping centres (regional and sub-regional) that insurance companies are aware of?

Reply: „For property insurance companies it would all be based on the total value (sum insured) of the property. The larger the property, the larger the potential property loss if the shopping centre burns down. However, the majority of shopping centres have automatic sprinklers installed (BCA requirement) that will assist in the mitigation of a property loss (control a fire at its source and alert the local fire brigade via electronic alarm). Issues that property insurers would focus on include: the fire systems being maintained to Australian Standards (including the fire pumps). The sprinkler system is designed in accordance with Australian Standards including the “back of store” areas of major retailers (where high-piled storage would be located); sufficient water supply available for the sprinkler system (large enough town‟s main, possible on-site tanks and correct fire pumps installed); fire impairment system which would be used whenever an automatic sprinkler system is shut down (tenancy fit out or property

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redevelopment) & ensures that the fire system is restored‟.Note: BCA refers to Building Code

Australia and is the authority on building codes in each state.

Q2. Are insurance companies interested in the fire risk management processes in enclosed shopping centres?

Reply: „Insurers are very interested in fire risk management processes being in place including: the fire impairment system (as mentioned in Question 1) where there are self-inspection

programs, checking on housekeeping both in common mall and tenants‟ areas hot work permit systems (contractor welding activities)cleaning of grease build up within cooking hoods of food retailers annual water fire tests (automatic sprinklers and hydrants) confirmation of fire

protection being maintained (portable fire extinguishers, fire blankets and hose reels – common mall & major retailers)emergency evacuation procedures (including training in the use of fire equipment) and dangerous goods/hazardous substances storage and summary of information‟ Property insurers would often conduct their own inspections of a shopping centre to seek evidence of fire risk management processes being in place. If the processes are unsatisfactory, then they would be issuing recommendations.

Q3. Do insurance companies grade shopping centres for risk? (old buildings, etc.) Reply: „The centres are based on risk such as age, size, location, sprinkler protection, and outstanding risk management recommendations, etc‟.

Q4. Any other issues that affect the insurance of enclosed shopping centres?

Reply: „If the property is located in an area in which natural hazards may cause damage such as flood, cyclone, earthquake, etc‟.

Conclusions to interview with insurance consultants

The replies to the above questions were comprehensive and to the point. They reflected what is required from the owner/manager from an insurance company. The insurance company has a stake in making sure that the fire incident risks are under control and that the management is aware of this. The insurance company is concerned with all risks, whether it is the building, fixture and fittings or stock. The company also has the interest of the customers, tenants and centre management via public liability insurance. Therefore the insurance company has a unique position in the area of fire risks as it deals with various stakeholders in the same building. The various stakeholders may have different levels of control. The importance of moral hazard in insurance was discussed in Chapter 2. It is an important concept and needs to be considered when the principle and agent relationship are concerned.

135 6.5.3 Observation

As stated in the research methodology in section 5.1.1, observation is a minor part of this research. The study is centred on the management of the fire risks in enclosed shopping centres. The observation of fire evacuation training is not possible due to a number of factors. The managers do not wish external parties to witness the process for reasons of confidential information. It would be impossible to find out when the evacuation training was being planned without the agreement of the management. Therefore, this level of observation was not pursued. However, there were no restrictions on general observations at two enclosed shopping centres. The observations were as follows:

1. Large amounts of cardboard cartons outside a major supermarket ready to be collected for recycling. From the observation, there was no fencing between the public pathway and the stacked cardboard cartons. This would pose a fire risk if the cardboard cartons were left for any length of time, especially if they were uncollected overnight or for a weekend.

2. Large steel container with lid left unlocked and recycle material left next to the steel container.

3. Other than above observation there were no other major fire risk problems observed and those were deemed adequate in 1 and 2 to show important fire risk problems.

The above two observations were sighted at a sub-regional shopping centre in suburban Melbourne. There may have been good reason for the above situation. However, it does highlight the potential problems if there are reduced controls.