RECEIVED IT.
A. OKAY. "PLEASE KNOW THERE IS NO SARCASM, ANGER OR HOSTILITY IN THIS MESSAGE."
THE COURT: OKAY. STOP. SO HOW DID YOU REACT WHEN YOU READ THAT?
THE WITNESS: I THOUGHT PERHAPS HE WAS GOING TO APOLOGIZE.
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THE COURT: OKAY.
THE WITNESS: "JUST SO YOU KNOW I REALLY DID TAKE YOUR ALLEGATION SERIOUSLY AND ASKED OPR," WHICH MEANS OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY, "TO LOOK INTO THEM."
THE COURT: OKAY. SO HOW DID YOU REACT TO THAT?
THE WITNESS: I KIND OF SAT BACK WONDERING IS HE INVESTIGATING MY RAPE, BECAUSE NOBODY TOLD ME HE WAS INVESTIGATING MY RAPE, OR IS HE INVESTIGATING MY
ALLEGATIONS ABOUT THE ANASTASIO CASE? SO I WAS CONFUSED AS TO WHAT HE WAS TALKING TO.
THE COURT: THE RAPE OCCURRED IN 1995; IS THAT RIGHT?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: OKAY. DID HE HAVE ANY SUPERVISORY ROLE OR WAS HE THERE OR HAVE ANY CONNECTION WITH THAT?
THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.
THE COURT: HAD HE -- DID YOU KNOW IF HE EVEN KNEW ABOUT IT?
THE WITNESS: I DID NOT KNOW IF HE KNEW ABOUT IT, BUT WHEN HE SAID IN THE VERY FIRST COMMENT TO ME WHEN HE REPLIED TO MY VERY FIRST TWEET TO HIM AND SAID "BUT I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT YOU," AND THEN MADE JUST THE "SIT BACK AND RELAX," I ASSUMED HE WAS SPEAKING ABOUT MY RAPE.
THE COURT: OKAY. AS OPPOSED TO THE ARTICLE -- THE SUBJECT OF THE ARTICLE YOU HAD SENT ABOUT HIM THAT 1
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MENTIONED TO HIM ABOUT THAT HE HAD SUBPOENAED AND THAT PART?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: SO LET ME ASK THIS: WERE YOU INVOLVED IN THAT CASE IN 2010? I MEAN --
THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.
THE COURT: OKAY. HAD YOU -- DID YOU HAVE ANY FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE OF THAT SITUATION?
THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.
THE COURT: WERE YOU EVER PART OF THE
INVESTIGATION INTO THAT INCIDENT? WAS IT MR. HERNANDEZ?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. NO, SIR, I WAS NOT.
THE COURT: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. SO GO AHEAD THEN.
THE WITNESS: "I WAS AND CONTINUE TO BE FULLY COMMITTED TO HONOR FIRST. WHILE STILL CHIEF I WANTED TO MEET WITH YOU TO HEAR YOUR PERSPECTIVE FIRSTHAND, BUT WAS ADVISED NOT TO DO SO BY COUNSEL DUE TO YOUR VERY PUBLIC ALLEGATION."
THE COURT: OKAY. SO WHAT DID YOU THINK HE MEANT BY THAT?
THE WITNESS: I ASSUMED HE WAS TALKING MOST LIKELY AGAIN ABOUT MY RAPE, BECAUSE I AM A VERY VOCAL ACTIVIST ABOUT THE RAPE CULTURE WITHIN THE BORDER PATROL.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO HAD YOU MADE VERY PUBLIC ALLEGATIONS ABOUT THAT?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, IT'S BEEN WRITTEN UP IN 1
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QUITE A FEW JOURNALS.
THE COURT: OKAY. AND WHEN WAS HE CHIEF, DO YOU KNOW?
THE WITNESS: CHIEF OF THE ENTIRE BORDER
PATROL, IT WAS -- I BELIEVE JUST RECENTLY HE RETIRED, SO I THINK FOR ABOUT A YEAR. YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK HIM EXACTLY WHAT YEAR, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE DATES WERE, BUT I BELIEVE JUST RECENTLY, AND THEN THE YEAR.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO WHEN YOU WERE AS WELL STILL CHIEF, WHAT -- DID YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT TIME PERIOD HE MIGHT BE REFERRING TO?
THE WITNESS: JUST RECENTLY WITHIN A YEAR -- THE COURT: OKAY.
THE WITNESS: -- OF MAKING THIS STATEMENT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. SO GO AHEAD THEN. AND SO YOU THOUGHT, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT DUE TO YOUR VERY PUBLIC ALLEGATIONS, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT YOUR ALLEGATIONS ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN BORDER PATROL WITH RESPECT TO RAPE CULTURE, ET CETERA, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
THE WITNESS: I THOUGHT EITHER THAT, BECAUSE HE HAD BROUGHT UP KNOWING THINGS ABOUT ME, OR HE MAYBE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE ANASTASIO CASE, I WASN'T SURE, BUT THE COMMENT OF "SIT BACK AND RELAX AND ENJOY IT" IS WHAT SCARED ME THE MOST.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, BECAUSE YOUR COUNSEL WANTED YOU TO GO THROUGH THIS AND TALK ABOUT HOW YOU REACTED TO EACH OF THIS, SO WHAT DID 1
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YOU THINK ABOUT HEARING THAT HE WANTED TO MEET WITH YOU TO HEAR YOUR PERSPECTIVE FIRSTHAND? WHAT DID YOU
UNDERSTAND THAT TO MEAN? HOW DID YOU REACT TO THAT? DID YOU THINK, OH, THIS WAS NEWS TO ME, I'M SURPRISED THAT THE CHIEF WOULD WANT TO MEET WITH ME? WHAT WAS YOUR THOUGHT WHEN YOU READ THAT?
THE WITNESS: IT WAS COMPLETELY NEWS TO ME AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY HE WOULD SAY THAT HE WANTED TO MEET ME WHEN HE'S NEVER TALKED TO ME BEFORE, SO --
THE COURT: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.
OKAY. THEN -- AND I GUESS HOW YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS, I MEAN, MAYBE WE CAN JUST SAY YOU GOT THE FIRST SENTENCE ABOUT "I BELIEVE YOU MISUNDERSTOOD MY RESPONSE,"
SO YOU READ THAT, AND THEN HE SAID, "I WANT YOU TO KNOW THE PUSHING BACK WAS NOT A REFERENCE TO YOUR PREVIOUS RAPE ALLEGATIONS." SO WHEN YOU READ THAT, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION?
THE WITNESS: THEN I REALIZED THAT HE DID KNOW ABOUT MY RAPE ALLEGATION, AND, AND, AND, AND SO HE'S
SAYING NOW I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE RAPE, I WAS TALKING ABOUT ANASTASIO, BUT I JUST STILL -- THAT PHRASE TO ME STILL, I CAN'T GET PAST IT, I RECEIVED THAT AND I FEEL THAT THAT WAS A RAPE THREAT.
THE COURT: OKAY. AND YOU'D SAID BEFORE THAT YOU MADE VERY PUBLIC ALLEGATIONS, YOUR PUBLIC ALLEGATIONS WERE THEY ABOUT THE ANASTASIO CASE OR WERE THEY ABOUT RAPE CULTURE AND WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO YOU?
THE WITNESS: BOTH. I'VE TALKED ABOUT BOTH 1
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PUBLICLY.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO YOU TALKED ABOUT BOTH PUBLICLY. SO HE COULD HAVE LEARNED ABOUT THAT IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR PUBLIC ALLEGATIONS AS CHIEF OF BORDER PATROL; RIGHT?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO -- AND, AGAIN, HOW -- WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO KNOWING THAT -- WERE YOU LEARNING FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT HE KNEW ABOUT THE ALLEGATIONS YOU WERE MAKING?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: OKAY. AND WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO HIS STATEMENT THAT HE KNEW ABOUT YOUR VERY PUBLIC ALLEGATIONS?
THE WITNESS: I WAS SURPRISED, BECAUSE NOBODY HAD SAID ANYTHING TO ME.
THE COURT: OKAY. HE THEN MAKES A REFERENCE -- HE'S REFERENCING A VIDEO INTERVIEW YOU DID. DO YOU
UNDERSTAND WHAT VIDEO?
THE WITNESS: I DO A LOT OF INTERVIEWS.
THE COURT: OKAY. DID YOU WONDER WHAT INTERVIEW HE WAS TALKING ABOUT?
THE WITNESS: YEAH. YES, SIR.
THE COURT: DID YOU HAVE ANY GUESSES AS TO WHAT INTERVIEWS HE MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT, OR WHAT
INTERVIEW -- DID YOU EVER THINK, OH, I THINK HE'S TALKING ABOUT THIS OR I THINK HE'S TALKING ABOUT THAT, DID THAT EVER CROSS YOUR MIND AS TO WHAT HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN
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TALKING ABOUT, OR DID YOU --
THE WITNESS: I THOUGHT MAYBE IT WAS AN AJ PLUS VIDEO THAT WAS RECENTLY DONE OF ME.
THE COURT: A WHAT?
THE WITNESS: AJ, IT STANDS FOR AL JAZEERA PLUS.
THE COURT: OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT DURING THAT INTERVIEW?
THE WITNESS: I TALKED ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM MY TIME IN THE BORDER PATROL, AND WHAT HAPPENED TO ME, AND THE RAPE CULTURE, AND THE CORRUPTION OF THE BORDER PATROL THAT I HAD KNOWN AND WHAT I HAD WITNESSED AND SEEN.
THE COURT: DID YOU TALK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR CASE, HERNANDEZ CASE THAT YOU SENT HIM THE ARTICLE ABOUT, DID YOU TALK TO AL JAZEERA ABOUT THAT?
THE WITNESS: YES, I DID.
THE COURT: OKAY. GOT IT. OKAY. AND THEN WE HAVE THAT HE REALLY WANTS BAD ACTORS HELD ACCOUNTABLE ESPECIALLY IN A BORDER PATROL UNIFORM, AND VAGUE
ALLEGATIONS DON'T DO ANYONE ANY GOOD. WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO READING THAT?
THE WITNESS: THAT'S JUST USUALLY WHAT ALL THE CHIEFS SAY.
THE COURT: OKAY. AND THEN HE SAID, "IF YOU HAVEN'T FILED A FORMAL ALLEGATION, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THAT AND HELP HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE." SO AT THAT -- WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU READ THAT?
THE WITNESS: SO I DID TRY AND FORM AN ALLE- -- 1
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I DID TRY AND FORM A COMPLAINT OR REPORT THE COMPLAINT, MY RAPE BACK WHEN IT HAPPENED, AND I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO.
AND I SEEK NO JUSTICE FROM THAT FROM 26 YEARS AGO. I SIMPLY TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT MANY, MANY OTHER WOMEN IN THE BORDER PATROL HAVE EXPERIENCED THE SAME, AND THAT THE RESPONSE FROM MANAGEMENT IS STILL THE SAME.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO WHEN YOU READ THAT YOU SAID, THAT'S TRUE, I DIDN'T FILE A FORMAL ACTION.
THROUGH YOUR THINKING THAT ESSENTIALLY THIS IS CORRECT, AND WHEN HE ENCOURAGED YOU TO DO THAT, YOUR THOUGHT WAS THE REACTION IS STILL GOING TO BE THE SAME AND --
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: SO TO THE EXTENT HE'S GIVING YOU ADVICE ON THAT, THAT WAS YOUR VIEW OF THAT ADVICE; RIGHT?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: OKAY, GOT IT. AND THEN IT GOES,
"WHEN IT GOT WITH OPR, THEY TOLD ME THEY COULDN'T FIND ANY RECORD OF MAKING ANY FORMAL ALLEGATIONS LIKE THE ONES YOU POST REGULARLY." AGAIN, WHAT ALLEGATIONS -- DID YOU HAVE A VIEW ON WHICH ALLEGATIONS HE WAS TALKING ABOUT?
THE WITNESS: I WOULD ASSUME HE'S TALKING ABOUT MY RAPE IN THE BORDER PATROL.
THE COURT: OKAY. AND THEN HE TALKS ABOUT NAMING THE INDIVIDUAL INSTEAD OF TRASHING THE 20,000 PUBLIC SERVICES AND SO FORTH. AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH REPEATING WHAT HE SAID BEFORE. "I REALIZE COMING ALONG YOU HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE, PLEASE CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY 1
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THAT YOU WERE THE EXCEPTION AND NOT THE RULE." OKAY. SO WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU READ THAT?
THE WITNESS: THAT'S NOT MY EXPERIENCE AS A BORDER PATROL AGENT. THAT'S NOT THE EXPERIENCE OF MANY OF THE FEMALE BORDER PATROL AGENTS I SPEAK WITH. IT'S NOT THE EXPERIENCE OF MANY OF THE MALE BORDER PATROL AGENTS.
THE COURT: SO YOUR VIEW WAS, YEAH, OF COURSE, I'VE CONSIDERED THAT POSSIBILITY, BUT I DON'T THINK I AM THE EXCEPTION. THAT WAS YOUR VIEW?
THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.
THE COURT: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN YOU SAY, "AS YOU KNOW, I'M RETIRED NOW SO I CAN DO AND SAY WHATEVER I WANT." WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU READ THAT?
THE WITNESS: MY REACTION WAS IT STARTED OUT AS AN APOLOGY LETTER, BUT IN THE END IT ENDED UP BEING I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT TO, SO I'M NOT REALLY SORRY.
THE COURT: OKAY. AND THEN HE SAYS, "I WOULD WELCOME A FACE-TO-FACE CONVERSATION IF YOU'RE SO
INCLINED, I WOULD BE GLAD TO HELP YOU HOLD THEM
ACCOUNTABLE." DID YOU -- WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU SAW THAT?
THE WITNESS: MY REACTION TO THIS IS THAT THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF CORRUPTION, BECAUSE AT THE TIME WHEN CHIEF SCOTT MADE THIS COMMENT, HE WAS NO LONGER
CHIEF OF THE BORDER PATROL, AND THE THOUGHT THAT HE COULD HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON GETTING MY RAPE ALLEGATION 26 YEARS 1
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AGO, WHICH I DID NOT ASK ANYBODY TO INVESTIGATE, THAT HE COULD SOMEHOW HAVE SOME INFLUENCE OVER CBP OPR SEEMED JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF CORRUPTION TO ME.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO YOUR VIEW IS THAT HE SAID HE WOULD BE GLAD TO HELP YOU, BUT YOU THOUGHT ANY HELP WOULD BE WORTHLESS BECAUSE HE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY POWER OR INFLUENCE, BECAUSE IT HAPPENED 26 YEARS AGO, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, OR ARE YOU SAYING SOMETHING ELSE?
THE WITNESS: I'M SAYING SOMETHING ELSE. I'M SAYING THAT FOR ME TO ASK CHIEF SCOTT TO HELP ME WITH THIS CASE WOULD BE CORRUPT BECAUSE CHIEF SCOTT NO LONGER HAD THAT AUTHORITY, AND I DON'T BELIEVE --
THE COURT: WELL, I GUESS HE'S SAYING HE HAS THE AUTHORITY THAT ANY CITIZEN WOULD HAVE, AND MAYBE HE HAS SOME KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING, AND THAT IF HE'S CHIEF, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, HE'S IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND OR WHATEVER, THAT LIMITS WHAT HE COULD DO TO HELP YOU PURSUE THIS, BUT NOW THAT HE'S RETIRED, YOU KNOW, HE CAN HELP YOU AS A FORMER AGENT. I MEAN, DOESN'T THAT SEEM TO BE WHAT HE'S SAYING HERE?
THE WITNESS: THAT'S NOT HOW I TOOK IT.
THE COURT: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU TOOK IT AS, I GUESS, EVIDENCE OF FURTHER CORRUPTION THAT BECAUSE HE WAS OUT OF THE BORDER PATROL, HE'S OFFERING TO HELP YOU, THAT'S A SYMBOL OF CORRUPTION, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE
SAYING?
THE WITNESS: WELL, BUT IT'S ALSO -- I ALSO FELT IT WAS DISINGENUOUS, YOUR HONOR.
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THE COURT: OKAY. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT. OKAY.
GO AHEAD.
MS. CELLERI:
Q. SO WHEN YOU RECEIVED THIS TWEET, YOU RECEIVED THIS