Median t

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Mediant, submediant, and minor keys

up vote 4 up vote 4 down vote down vote favorite favorite

I am familiar with the degree names: tonic, supertonic, mediant,

I am familiar with the degree names: tonic, supertonic, mediant, etc but notetc but not sure of their use in minor keys. Let's consider C m

sure of their use in minor keys. Let's consider C major and minor.ajor and minor.

Some are clear, the dominant and subdominant will be G and F in both. Some are clear, the dominant and subdominant will be G and F in both. The mediant is E in C

The mediant is E in C major, is it Emajor, is it E♭♭_{in C minor?}_{in C minor?}

The submediant is even less clear, is it A

The submediant is even less clear, is it A♭♭_{in C minor? What about A}_{in C minor? What about A}♮♮_{? It is}_{? It is}

an accidental in C minor but a common note nonetheless. Are there terms for an accidental in C minor but a common note nonetheless. Are there terms for the two As?

the two As?

What is the leading note: B

What is the leading note: B♭♭_{or B}_{or B}♮♮_{? B}_{? B}♭♭_{is in the key signature but if}_{is in the key signature but if aa}

progression is actually leading up to the tonic then B

progression is actually leading up to the tonic then B♮♮_{seems more likely even}_{seems more likely even}

in C minor. Whichever is the leading n

in C minor. Whichever is the leading note, how is the other referred to?ote, how is the other referred to? theory

theoryterminologyterminology

shareimprove this question shareimprove this question

asked Apr 12 at 9:10 asked Apr 12 at 9:10 badjohn badjohn 4139 4139

The correct terminology is "Technical Names" and

The correct terminology is "Technical Names" and seeing that they are allseeing that they are all names it is correct English to spell the with an

names it is correct English to spell the with an upper case letter. So inupper case letter. So in other words Dominant not dominant.

other words Dominant not dominant.

_–

Neil Meyer Neil Meyer Apr 12 at 11:30Apr 12 at 11:30 1

1 I've only ever heard the tI've only ever heard the term "scale-degree names"; who uses "Technicalerm "scale-degree names"; who uses "Technical Names"?

Names"?

_–

RichardRichardApr 12 at 11:31Apr 12 at 11:31

Thanks. I have not heard the term "Technical Names". I cannot recall Thanks. I have not heard the term "Technical Names". I cannot recall whether I am more familiar with Dominant or dominant. Ex

whether I am more familiar with Dominant or dominant. Excessivecessive capitalisation is so common these days that I would

capitalisation is so common these days that I would not read anynot read any significance to it.

significance to it.

_–

badjohn badjohnApr 12 at 11:37Apr 12 at 11:37

3 3

@NeilMeyer - everyone else appears to call them

@NeilMeyer - everyone else appears to call them 'scale degrees'. And less'scale degrees'. And less than 1/3 of sites referring to them use capitals. So

than 1/3 of sites referring to them use capitals. So that's quite a minority.that's quite a minority. I'm staying with the majority. And 'technical names' itself doesn't need I'm staying with the majority. And 'technical names' itself doesn't need capitals. It's used by ABRSM, but that

capitals. It's used by ABRSM, but that doesn't make it biblical - they onlydoesn't make it biblical - they only discovered the natural minor a couple

discovered the natural minor a couple of years ago!! Am I getting pickof years ago!! Am I getting picky?!y?!

–

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1

I just searched for Technical Names and mediant. I added mediant to the search since I thought that Technical Names alone would get many false hits. I was surprised by the number of responses as I had never heard the term before. i did not attempt any analysis of how common it was.

However, the results that I have looked at so far don't answer my minor key questions.

_–

badjohn Apr 12 at 12:57

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4 Answers

active oldest votes

up vote 1 down vote

The leading note/tone is always going to be a semitone under the tonic.In a minor key known as the

subtonic

. It would appear that the same terms are used for all three minor scale notes, but written such as 'the mediant of the melodic minor . That's fine for the jazz melodic - and also for the harmonic - but I can't find a reference (yet) for what the mediant would be called in classical melodic descending, it being a semitone lower than the 'mediant' ascending. It does seem confusing that two different notes would have the same nomenclature! Good question!

shareimprove this answer edited Apr 12 at 10:03

answered Apr 12 at 9:30

Tim 62.9k565156

Thanks. I saw subtonic for the first time while researching before asking th ough what I read did not go on to say that it allowed leading note to be reserved for B♮_{(still using my C minor example). That makes sense, it would seem very}

odd to call B♭_{the leading note. I can see that "mediant of the melodic minor"}

solves the ambiguity but it is rather clumsy. Also, what would unqualified mediant refer to? The piece modulated to the mediant? Fairly plausible in a minor key since that would be the relative major.

_–

badjohn Apr 12 at 10:23 Mediant is unequivocal. However, submediant would actually have to represent two notes - F/F# in Am classical melodic, for instance, so the plot thickens...

_–

Tim Apr 12 at 11:38

Yes, the more interesting question is submediant. I seem to have my answer for leading note.

_–

add a comment up

vote 1 down

Note: I misunderstood the question, and responded to mediant

keys

instead of mediant

pitches

. But I'll leave this up in case it's helpful.

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vote

Music

, offers a naming system.

He separates these mediants into two broad families of "lower" and "upper" (L and U) mediants.

Within these two families, there are then three more specific types: "flat," "relative," and "sharp" (F, R, and S) mediants. AImportant to remember is that the relative mediants share

two

common tones, while the other mediants share just

one

.

So in C major, the LFM ("lower flat mediant") is A♭ major, the LRM ("lower relative mediant") is A minor, and the LSM ("lower sharp mediant") is A

major. Meanwhile, the UFM is E♭ major, the URM is E minor, and the USM is E major.

In C

minor

, the LFM is A♭ minor, the LRM is A♭ major, and the LSM is A minor; the UFM is E♭ minor, the URM is E♭ major, and the USM is E minor. There are more specifics regarding distinctions between chromatic and disjunct mediants, but this is the gist of his system.

I should note that this terminology is not that widely used. While most

"academic" music theorists

should

be familiar with this terminology, I haven't really seen it used outside of academia. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it!

And Tim is right on with the distinction between subtonic and leading tone, so I didn't discuss it here.

Richard 12.9k32160 Thanks. My recent research showed me that subtonic is fairly common and consistent; I am a little surprised that I have not encountered it before. I can see the logic in the system you describe but I have not heard any of it before. The next time that I see some of my music literate friends, I will try to bring these terms into the conversation and see how it goes. You say leading tone so I guess that you are in the US. Is there a possibility of a US / UK difference here as in

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half-note / minim?

_–

1 Ah, sorry; leading tone = leading note! (I do think it's a US/UK difference, yes.)

–

Richard Apr 12 at 11:25

No problem there. I am used to that difference and also to half note / minim but I don't know whether there are differences in the area of degree names.

_–

I'm not aware of any other US/UK distinctions, but some theorists do prefer the term "predominant" instead of "subdominant." They're wrong :-)

_–

Richard Apr 12 at 11:31

In your 3rd and 4th paras., you say , e.g.'in Cm, the LFM is Ab minor '. Can a mediant (one note, I thought) have major or minor attatched? Have I missed something?

_–

Tim Apr 12 at 11:43

show3 more comments

up vote 1 down vote

The scale degree names are the same between major and minor... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(music)

...with the exception of the leading tone. The leading tone will always be a half-step below the tonic. So, in minor, theharmonic and melodic minor scales have a

leading tone as their seventh scale degree. The natural minor has a subtonic as its seventh degree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading-tone

While you did not ask specifically you may be interested to know that the solfege syllables do have variations for major/minor. So the third scale degree in major is called "mi" but in minor it can be called "ma" or "me." You question seemed to be searching for a major/minor distinction in scale degree names. While there isn't a distinction for the degree names, there is on for solfege syllables.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solf%C3%A8ge

Michael Curtis 1,663113 Thanks. So, using C minor as the example. The mediant is certainly E♭_.

There are separate terms for B♭_{and B}♮_{. The submediant is A}♭_{but there is}

no term for A♮_{even though it will occur commonly in a C minor piece.}

–

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Thanks for the solfege information. As you say, beyond my question but interesting nonetheless.

_–

Regarding A♮_{. I think you are right, there is no special term. But, in the}

theory discussions where the context is melodic minor I think people may refer to that degree as a "raised sixth." But, of course that isn't really the term/name I think we would all like to have. :-)

_–

Michael Curtis Apr 13 at 15:16

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up vote 0 down vote

Anyone looking for a simple answer might consider this:

The degrees of the scale outline Tonic, Mediant and Dominant as the 1st, 3rd and 5th degrees of the scale ascending.

The 1st, 3rd and 5th degrees descending give us the Tonic, Submediant and Subdominant. A good reason not to use 'Subtonic', as the 'sub' part of the word doesn't mean 'immediately below' but rather means 'descending rather than ascending' - so if you called something the 'Subtonic' it should either mean a unison Tonic or the Tonic an octave lower, logically speaking. 'Subsupertonic' for the 7th degree if you don't like the British term, maybe?

That only leaves the 2nd (Supertonic because it is above the Tonic) and 7th (Leading Note because it leads back up to the Tonic).

As to building chords on these notes, the major ones are simple because they use the notes of the major scale for every triad.

The minor ones can also be simple. We are creating chords and therefore building harmony. Therefore it is logical to use the scale created for such a purpose,

namely, the harmonic minor scale.

So, in C minor, your chord on the: Tonic (C) will be minor; Supertonic (D) will be diminished; Mediant (Eb) will be augmented; Subdominant (F) will be mino r; Dominant (G) will be major; Submediant (Ab) will be major; and Leading Note (B) will be diminished.

I acknowledge that academics will want to delve much deeper but something simpler for perhaps A level students needs to be here too. And anyone who posts on this thread deserves a medal after the long hours trying to stop the spell checker editing so many words - 'supersonic' for example!

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(6)

AnnFB 212

Thanks. I like your interpretation of sub in submediant and subdominant. When I first learned these terms, they seemed puzzling. Only much later, did your interpretation occur to me. I encountered subtonic even more recently, just before my post, and as you say, it breaks the pattern. On the "British

term", do you just mean "leading note" rather than "leading tone"? This seems to be a trivial difference. I was puzzled at first by your C minor comments but I expect that you are referring to the chords built on these notes. I was just asking the names of the notes.

_–

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