MR HILL: Mrs Jackson, as we understand it, you are currently 16
the business manager at the Sale College? 17
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 18
MR HILL: And you’ve been in that position as business manager 19
now for some 35 years. 20
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 21
MR HILL: And can we take it that during that time, you’ve 22
seen a number of principals come and go at that school? 23
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 24
MR HILL: Yes. In terms of being the business manager, do you 25
have any formal qualifications? 26
MRS JACKSON: A diploma. 27
MR HILL: In what? 28
MRS JACKSON: In financial management. 29
MR HILL: In – and when did you obtain the diploma? 30
MRS JACKSON: Be in the ’70s, yes. 1
MR HILL: Right. So before you commenced as the business 2
manager? 3
MRS JACKSON: No. After I started. 4
MR HILL: After it. 5
MRS JACKSON: It was – once I got into the job, I did some 6
training through Deakin University. 7
MR HILL: And can we take it that over the last 35 years, 8
you’ve attended many training courses to - - - 9
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 10
MR HILL: - - - better equip you with skills necessary - - - 11
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 12
MR HILL: - - - to be the business manager of a school? 13
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 14
MR HILL: Yes. And where have those courses been? In Sale? 15
MRS JACKSON: A lot of them in Moe, Melbourne, Sale, Lakes 16
Entrance, Bairnsdale. 17
MR HILL: Yes. Have you attended any conferences or training 18 sessions interstate? 19 MRS JACKSON: No. 20 MR HILL: Or overseas? 21 MRS JACKSON: No. 22
MR HILL: The job of business manager at a school such as Sale 23
College presumably encompasses all types of duties and 24
responsibilities, but were you, in particular, 25
responsible for paying the accounts of the school? 26
MRS JACKSON: I’m in charge of the finance, but I have three 27
finance people who actually process the orders and 28
invoices. 29
MR HILL: Yes. 30
MRS JACKSON: And raise the batches. 1
MR HILL: And what do you do? You oversee them? 2
MRS JACKSON: I oversee them. 3
MR HILL: Yes. 4
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 5
MR HILL: The expression “banker school” is that an expression 6
that’s been known to you for some time? 7
MRS JACKSON: Forever, the Ministry would prefer it to be 8
known as a coordinating school. 9
MR HILL: Yes. When did you first here the term banker 10
school? 11
MRS JACKSON: When I was employed probably, yes. 12
MR HILL: Moving perhaps to more recent times, say in the year 13
2006, was banker school a term that was often used? 14
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 15
MR HILL: Was Sale College ever a banker school? 16
MRS JACKSON: Unofficially to semi-officially schools in that 17
time we would be running something for the area and then 18
at the end of the year the next area that had that – that 19
profile you would then balance up what was left into – no 20
– say move it onto the next school, so – and it’s not 21
unusual, no. 22
MR HILL: So if we understand what you’re saying correctly one 23
year there may be a program within your area - - - 24
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 25
MR HILL: - - - in which a number of schools in that area will 26
participate - - - 27
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 28
MR HILL: - - - including your school? 29
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 30
MR HILL: And one year your school may hold the money 1 centrally - - - 2 MRS JACKSON: Yes. 3
MR HILL: - - - for those schools to pay out the expenses of 4
that program? 5
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 6
MR HILL: And then the next year that responsibility and 7
duties would go to another school? 8
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 9
MR HILL: And is that how you understood the banker school 10 system to work? 11 MRS JACKSON: Yes. 12 MR HILL: Or program - - - 13 MRS JACKSON: Yes. 14 MR HILL: - - - coordinated - - - 15 MRS JACKSON: Yes. 16 MR HILL: - - - program. 17 MRS JACKSON: Yes. 18
MR HILL: And on the occasions where Sale College was holding 19
funds in that sense, the funds would come from the 20
Department itself? 21
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 22
MR HILL: And would these programs be documented? 23
MRS JACKSON: Sometimes, not always. You would get a grant to 24
say it was for innovations in excellence or whatever was 25
happening, but sometimes it would just come in as a 26
grant. 27
MR HILL: Would these be grants that you’ve applied for? 28
MRS JACKSON: No. 29
MR HILL: So the money would come in as a grant? 30
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 1
MR HILL: From whom? 2
MRS JACKSON: From the Department. 3
MR HILL: From any specific person within the Department? 4
MRS JACKSON: Some – they would just appear as a grant so I 5
couldn’t actually say from a specific person. 6
MR HILL: Right. 7
MRS JACKSON: They would just appear in your bank account. 8
You - - - 9
MR HILL: How would you know what the money was for? 10
MRS JACKSON: Sometimes the principal would say to me, “We’re 11
getting X to run innovations in excellence.” Sometimes 12
the finance manager at Moe would ring me to say that 13
we’re receiving X for something else. 14
MR HILL: The region, what’s the region called within which 15
Sale - - - 16
MRS JACKSON: Southern Eastern. 17
MR HILL: Southern Eastern. And who was in charge of that 18
region in latter years? 19
MRS JACKSON: Finance, Wayne Carmody. 20
MR HILL: Yes. And you would receive instructions from him as 21
head of finance within the region? 22
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 23
MR HILL: Yes. Do you know a person by the name of Nino 24
Napoli? 25
MRS JACKSON: Know of him. 26
MR HILL: And - - - 27
MRS JACKSON: I’ve been at many business managers professional 28
developments where he’s spoken, but that’s the extent. 29
MR HILL: All right. So you’ve not met him personally or 30
socialised with him in any way? 1
MRS JACKSON: Never socialised with him. I may have talked to 2
him with a coffee within the room of the professional 3
development with half a dozen other people, but he 4
wouldn’t know who I was. 5
MR HILL: Has he come to your school, to your knowledge? 6
MRS JACKSON: No. 7
MR HILL: Are you in regular contact, or have you been in 8
regular contact with Mr Wayne Carmody, the head of 9
finance for the south eastern region? 10
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 11
MR HILL: What’s the nature of your relationship with him? Is 12
it solely professional? 13
MRS JACKSON: Solely professional, but he is a great supporter 14
of country schools . And once it became that they moved 15
most of the processes to Dandenong, he was our first 16
point of contact. 17
MR HILL: I would like to show you, if I might – so this is 18
page 6 of court book 16. If you look at the screen 19
there, Mrs Jackson, you will see an EFT remittance advice 20
directed to Sale College, 26 May 2010 – sorry, there may 21
be two dates on it. 28 May 2010. It’s said to be for 22
professional development, and the amount is $15,000. Can 23
you say how it was that that sum of $15,000 was deposited 24
into the bank account of Sale College? 25
MRS JACKSON: Yes, by direct grant into our high interest 26
account. 27
MR HILL: Yes. And was that a grant that the school had 28
applied for? 29
MRS JACKSON: No. 30
MR HILL: Or was it a grant that had simply come from the 1
south eastern region? 2
MRS JACKSON: A grant that came from the south eastern region. 3
It came - - - 4
MR HILL: Did you speak to Mr Carmody about it at any stage? 5
MRS JACKSON: He rang. 6
MR HILL: And what did he say? 7
MRS JACKSON: That Nino had rang him to say that the 8
professional development that was being run in 9
Bairnsdale, the documents that were to be printed, there 10
was a problem with the printer. They wouldn’t be done in 11
time, and he had organised for another printing company 12
to do it. Would it be okay for us to pay the invoices? 13
MR HILL: Right. So this is what Mr Carmody was telling you 14
he had been told by Mr Nino Napoli? 15
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 16
MR HILL: And a short time after that conversation was the sum 17
of $15,000 deposited in to your account? 18
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 19
MR HILL: When I say your account - - - 20
MRS JACKSON: The college’s account. 21
MR HILL: - - - the Sale College bank account. Other than 22
that, did you know anything further about this $15,000? 23
MRS JACKSON: No. 24
MR HILL: Other than there would be invoices arriving that you 25
would have to pay from that amount of money. 26
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 27
MR HILL: Had that ever occurred in the past, to your 28
knowledge? 29
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 30
MR HILL: And how frequently had that occurred in the past 1
that money had been placed into the college’s account? 2
MRS JACKSON: It’s not frequently, but if a specific purpose 3
was going to be run, and it was within our region or – 4
that would happen. 5
MR HILL: This was not really for a specific purpose though, 6
was it? 7
MRS JACKSON: Well, I believed it was. I believed it was for 8
a – either talking finance or a dollars and sense 9
professional development. 10
MR HILL: Well, that was not the only transfer of moneys into 11
the college’s account. There was a further one a short 12
time later, in July the same year. 13
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 14
MR HILL: Could we have, please, page 7 on the screen. And 15
this is the second of the EFT remittance advices. This 16
time it’s for $21,000. Do you see that? 17
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 18
MR HILL: Was there any discussion with any person, Mrs 19
Jackson, about that amount of money prior to it or at the 20
time that it arrived into the college’s bank account? 21
MRS JACKSON: I do believe, but I am not totally sure, that 22
some of that was some of the same sort of grant as 23
before. 24
MR HILL: The description here is “SRP – that’s an 25
abbreviation for Student Resource Package – offline batch 26
000465”. What does that mean? 27
MRS JACKSON: Nothing to me. 28
MR HILL: All right. But you’re aware that that money too 29
went into the account? 30
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 1
MR HILL: How was it dealt with in the books of account of 2
Sale College? 3
MRS JACKSON: Under the way that DEET has changed the 4
accounting system from a line accounting system to 5
everything to – going into cash grants into unclassified 6
they like all the money to be in a bucket and for people 7
not to have specific balances. 8
MR HILL: Right. So this is in the high-yield interest 9
account? 10
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 11
MR HILL: Rather than the cheque account? 12
MRS JACKSON: Correct. All the money goes into high yield. 13
MR HILL: And were there – was their specific accounting that 14
kept these amounts of money separate from the other 15
school moneys? 16
MRS JACKSON: You have to do a manual acquittal. 17
MR HILL: Right. Well, we will come back to that in a moment. 18
But at about the same time, or shortly thereafter – I 19
will withdraw that. On both occasions was it the 20
situation that Mr Carmody told you that the money was 21
coming? 22
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 23
MR HILL: And on both occasions did he make reference to Mr 24
Nino Napoli? 25
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 26
MR HILL: To the effect that this was money that was being 27
placed into the college’s account at the request of Mr 28
Napoli? 29
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 30
MR HILL: Yes. Could we have on the screen please page 12? 1
The company Encino Proprietary Limited, did you see that 2
invoice? 3
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 4
MR HILL: At the time that it came to the school? 5
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 6
MR HILL: You will see that there are a number of stamps on 7
it, one – order number 18934, received, checked account. 8
Do you recognise any of the writing on that? 9
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 10
MR HILL: What writing do you recognise? 11
MRS JACKSON: My signature is received, and one of my accounts 12
payable to staff is the checked, and it’s – the stamp 13
states it has gone through the regional office. 14
MR HILL: And what does the order number mean? 15
MRS JACKSON: That was the order number that was raised for 16
the invoice. 17
MR HILL: And why do you raise an order number? 18
MRS JACKSON: To match it into our accounting system so that – 19
we always use the accounts payable so that we can track 20
every payment. So you match an invoice to an order so 21
that you have an audit trail and create so that you can 22
see everything – if you ever pay that ... again you can 23
track it. 24
MR HILL: These were not goods that ever came to the Sale 25
College? 26
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 27
MR HILL: And the principal at the time was Mr Craig Felstead? 28
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 29
MR HILL: You will see another stamp on this particular 30
invoice, “Department of Education and Early Childhood 1
Development, Gippsland region, 27 May 2010 received.” 2
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 3
MR HILL: Do you know who placed that stamp on this invoice? 4
MRS JACKSON: No. 5
MR HILL: Do you know why such a stamp would be placed on the 6
invoice? 7
MRS JACKSON: No. 8
MR HILL: How did the invoice actually come to Sale College? 9
MRS JACKSON: By mail. 10
MR HILL: By mail. I suppose – did you open the mail? Or 11
- - - 12
MRS JACKSON: No. 13
MR HILL: Right. Did you see the letter with which it came? 14
Or the envelope I should say with which it came in? 15
MRS JACKSON: No. No. 16
MR HILL: Do you know whether there was a covering letter or a 17
note with it? 18
MRS JACKSON: No. 19
MR HILL: Do you know how it was associated, this particular 20
invoice, with the grant that had been made of $15,000? 21
MRS JACKSON: I – Wayne Carmody probably rang me to say it was 22
coming. 23
MR HILL: Yes. Did you yourself have any dealings at all with 24
anyone from Encino Proprietary Limited? 25
MRS JACKSON: No. 26
MR HILL: Did anyone at the school, to your knowledge, have 27
details – have – sorry, I will say that again. Did 28
anyone at the school have dealings with Encino 29
Proprietary Limited, to your knowledge? 30
MRS JACKSON: No. 1
MR HILL: Having received the invoice, could we have page 13 2
on the screen, please. Was the order, I think as you 3
have told us, it was order number 18934, which we have on 4
the screen. 5
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 6
MR HILL: Was that then filled out? 7
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 8
MR HILL: When you either – when you normally would purchase 9
goods or seek services from an external provider, would 10
you fill out the order form before or after the invoice? 11
MRS JACKSON: 90 per cent of the time before, but there is a 12
section of invoices that you receive that you do the 13
order as they come in because you don’t have the proper 14
details of the company. There’s a reason. 15
MR HILL: Because normally when you get the invoice, that 16
means the job has been done. 17
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 18
MR HILL: And so normally you would complete the order form 19
before - - - 20
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 21
MR HILL: - - - the job is commenced 22
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 23
MR HILL: And certainly before the invoice is ready. 24
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 25
MR HILL: You’ve told us there were occasions when that wasn’t 26
done because you needed the full details of the company, 27
for example. 28
MRS JACKSON: Yes, the ABN number and things like that. 29
MR HILL: Any other examples? 30
MRS JACKSON: No, I can’t think of any. 1
MR HILL: Now, in respect to this one, the handwriting on the 2
order form, is that known to you? It’s a bit blurred I 3
must admit but – perhaps if we scroll down, there are a 4
couple of signatures at the foot of the page. 5
MRS JACKSON: Yes, it’s one of my accounts payable staff and 6
myself. 7
MR HILL: Right. So we’ve got signature “KLAC”, what does 8
that stand for? 9
MRS JACKSON: Well, I actually think it’s A – A. Sheers, and 10
the bottom one, at the bottom is A.M. Jackson. 11
MR HILL: Yes, but what is the – what are the letters KLAC? 12
MRS JACKSON: K – key learning area coordinator. Sorry. 13
MR HILL: Thank you. And that’s one of the people within your 14
office. 15
MRS JACKSON: Correct. 16
MR HILL: And it’s then signed by yourself. 17
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 18
MR HILL: Yes. And if we scroll up again, there was one 19
further signature which is that of the principal, under 20
the heading – just scroll up a little bit more. Under 21
the heading: 22
For any inquiries on this order, contact Craig Felstead. 23
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 24
MR HILL: Now, that clearly has been filled in by one of the 25
account staff. 26
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 27
MR HILL: Do you know why his name was placed there as the 28
contact point if there were any inquiries on the order? 29
MRS JACKSON: Because - - - 30
MR HILL: Or was it – or was it just done as a matter of 1
routine? 2
MRS JACKSON: Routine, but a discussion was had with him when 3
we were asked to pay these accounts, whether he was happy 4
with the process. And then when he said yes, I rang 5
Wayne back and said, “Yes, that’s fine.” 6
MR HILL: Did Mr Felstead at any time indicate any concern, be 7
it slight or otherwise, in respect to these accounts? 8
MRS JACKSON: No, because it’s not unusual for us to 9
facilitate things for our area. 10
MR HILL: Well, could we have page 11, and this is a copy of 11
the payment voucher for the same amount of money, $4950, 12
signed by the school principal, by yourself and by one 13
other person. 14
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 15
MR HILL: And who was the other person? I don’t want to know 16
the name but the position. 17
MRS JACKSON: What year is it? 18
MR HILL: 2010. Was it likely to be one of – the assistant 19
principal? 20
MRS JACKSON: It would either be the present school council 21
president. She was treasurer and then president. So I’m 22
not quite sure whether she was the treasurer or the 23
president at the time. 24
MR HILL: We’ve seen a number of these from other schools 25
where it seems the assistant principal would often sign 26
them. 27
MRS JACKSON: Not at Sale College. We have a division of all 28
processes so all payments must be co-signed by the 29
principal and a member of our school council who is not a 30
staff member. And if the principal is unavailable for 1
more than seven days, then the vice principal may sign 2
but it still must be with somebody from the school 3
council. We do not have two staff member signing any 4
payments at all. 5
MR HILL: Would the school council member who signed this 6
credit voucher, or payment voucher have been told the 7
nature of the transaction? 8
MRS JACKSON: No. 9
MR HILL: So it’s simply presented for signature by that 10
person with the accompanied documentation - - - 11
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 12
MR HILL: - - - presumably, the order and the invoice? 13
MRS JACKSON: Yes. 14
MR HILL: Yes. And I think as you’ve told us Sale College did 15
not receive any such product?