04transitions.pdf

(1)

A

Carolina

Planning

Forum

Editors' Note:

As

a result

of

the recent federal welfare reform legislation, welfare recipients are being

forced

to

find

jobs.

At

the

same

time, the strong

growth of

the

economy

is leaving

many

Americans

behind.

Planners

need

to

consider

new

:vays to

connect

unemployed

and

underemployed

people

to

jobs.

The

editors

_of

Carolina

Planning

hosted a

forum

to discuss

how

people

in

North Carolina

are dealing with these issues.

We

brought

together

a panel

that includes variedperspectives,

from

private training

programs

to

community

development

corporations to state agencies.

The

text

of

this article is

an

editedversion

of

the discussion,

which

took

place

at the University

of North Carolina-Chapel

Hill

on

November

10. 1997.

Participants

Tim

Moore,

Executive

Director.

Center

for

Employment

Training,

Research

Triangle Office.

Pheon

Beal,

Chief of

Economic

Independence,

DivisionofSocialServices,

North

Carolina

Department

of Health

and

Human

Services.

Leslie

Boney,

Director,

North Carolina Business

Involvement Council.

North

Carolina

Department

of

Commerce.

James

Grace,

President,

North

Carolina Association of

CDCs

and

ExecutiveDirector,East

Winston

CDC.

Stuart Rosenfeld, Principal,

Regional

Technology

Strategies, Inc.

Facilitator

Sorien

Schmidt,

North

Carolina

Justice

and

Community

Development

Center.

Forum

Sorien

Schmidt:

Work

Firstisour

primary

state cash public assistanceprogram.Itprovidescashassistance

for

low income

parents with children. Ninety-fiveto ninety-sevenpercentofthe familiesare asingle

mom

withkids,orina

few

cases,asingle

dad

withkids.

A

few

ofthe families are also

two

parent families with

children.

As

you know,

with welfare reform going on now, these families are limited inthe length of time they

can

receive cashassistance benefits,

and

in order to receivethem,

many

ofthe familieswillhaveto

work

atthe

same

timethattheyare

on

the benefitprogram.

Ifwe're going to stop providing cash assistance to

low income

families

and

we're going to

make

them

work,

how

are

we

goingtoget

them

intojobs,

where

are thejobs going to be,

how

are they going to get

there,

what

kindoftraining

do

theyneed,

and

arethey goingtobeable to

move

on towards

self-sufficiency?

Ithink since

we

have

a

good mix

ofprivate

and

publichere, I'llstartwiththis question:

what

roledo

you

think

government

should play in assisting

low

mcome

peoplein

moving

into

employment, and what

roledoes

government

needtoplaytoassistemployers

inhiring

low income

peoplethat

may

have

low

skills?

Pheon

Beal:

Work

First replaced

two

government

programs.

One

is called

Aid

to

Families

with

Dependent

Children,

which

is

commonly known

as

AFDC,

and

the Job Opportunities

and

Basic Skills

program,

or

JOBS

program,

which

was

designedto help welfarerecipients transition offwelfare

and

into

the

workplace.

The

role that

government

has

traditionallyplayedsince

about

1935,

when

the

AFDC

program

began

as partofthe Social Security Act,is

to provide a safety netprimarilyto families that are

headed

by

asingleparent

—

in 1935,thatsingleparent

was

usually a

widow,

usually a

war

widow

—

or to provide services for orphans,

who

were

primarily

(2)

the single parents in the

Work

First caseload are parents

who

never

marry

or are single as theresultof divorce or separation.

So what

government

has traditionallydone,I

would

submit,isnot totry toend poverty withthis fairlysmallcash

payment

—

it'sonly

about

272

dollars a

month

fora familyofthree

—

but to provide

some

ofthebasic necessities

Over

the years, however,

most

familieshavealso receivedfood stamps, Medicaid, child caresubsidies,

assistance withtransportation, housing subsidies, in

addition to

some

wages and

the earned

income

tax

credit, inorder toprovidefor theirfamily's needs. If

you add

tothatchildsupport,

which

isthe

money owed

by

theabsentparent,then

you

pretty

much

have

what

makes

up

thetraditionalsafety netfor

most

families.

What we

have

shifted

from

smce

Work

First

began

m

1

995

isa de-emphasis

on

theprocesses

we

go through to provide the safety net

—

determining eligibility,

cutting the checks, sending

them

out, figuring out

whether

ornot

we made

an error, doingitinatimely

way

—

to focus

on

transitioningpeople

back

mto

the workforce. Thishas beena

major

culture change for

government.

Government

has

become

in this area really

more

of

a business,

because

what

the Federal

Welfare

Reform

Act

did in

1996

was

to

end

the entitlement part ofthe safety net,

and

that's the

monthly

cash assistance payment.

What we now

have is a bottom

line,

and

we

have

a

capped

block grant.

We

aren't

goingto get

any

more

federalfunds overthenextfive

years

from

that block grant.

We

can add additional

state

and

local dollars,but

we

won't

get

any

additional federal funds.

So

we

are inthe process of

becoming

what

we

talkedaboutforso long,

which

is a

results-oriented

management

organization.

At

the

same

time, particularlyinthe

Department

ofHealth

and

Human

Services, I think

we

are still

seen as theproviderofequity.

We

are the folks

who

leveltheplayingfields,bringthe

more

disenfranchised families intothe system,

and

provide forthoseneeds that

would

not otherwisebe addressed.

Schmidt:

For

the

low income

families that are receiving these services, or

who

may

not even be receiving these services but are

low

mcom;

and

possibly

low

skill,

what

is it thattheyneed to

move

intothejob

market?

Boney:

Ithink there are a coupleofthings that

people need ifthey're

gomg

to

make

the transition

from

essentiallynot

working

into

working

The

first

is,

some

sortofsoftskillstraining. Ifyou'venotbeen

in the workplace,

you

don't necessarily

know

or understand that it's important if

you

can't

come

to

work

inthe

morning

to call in

and

explain

why

you

can't

come

towork.

There

are

some

basic soft skills that

you

needto figureout

m

your

firstjob.

There

are

all lands of people

who

can

providethese, including

government

agencies, local

community

colleges, privatenon-profitssuchas theCenterfor

Employment

and Training, and church

and

other volunteer civic groups.Foralot of employers,softskills areenough.

They

say, send

me

somebody

who

understands it's

importantto

show up

to

work

everyday,

and

callinif

they can't, and

we

will provide the specific trailing

that the}' need.

In other cases, employers

want

a little bit

more

than that.

They

want

someone

who

has

a

specific

skill set. Again, there are a

group

of

people in the

statethatare willing

and

interested

m

providingthat.

They

rangethe

same

gamut,

from

private non-profits tochurch groupsto

government

agencies

on

thestate

level.

So

Ithink

some

combination

of

those

two

things, hardskills andsoftskills, are the

two

basic elements. Schmidt: StuartRosenfeld,in

your work, have

you

foundthatobtainingsoftskills is

enough

for

someone

togetinto

employment

withoutgettingothertypes

of

skills?

Stuart

Rosenfeld:

It's

enough

to get

them

into employment.

But

it'snotnecessarily

gomg

to find that

interesting

and worthwhile

work most want

to do.

Employers

talkaboutall sorts of generic skills, such as

communications and problem

solving, but

when

it

comes

right

down

to it, every

employer

I talk with

wants experience

and

very specific skills.

They

will

only take thosewiththe

low

skillsforsemiskilledwork, andthosejobsarenotgoingtolead

anywhere.

To

me,partofthe

problem

isthat

we

stillseethis

welfare-to-work issue strictlyas a social policy, not as

economic

development. It's

supply

driven. All

of

usonthispanel represent thesupplyside

of

theissue.

There is

nobody

here representing the

demand

side ofthis,and

we

haven'tgot

them

very

mvolved

in this

process yet.

We

don't really

have

a

knowledge

of

what

thebusinesses reallywant,

what

they need, yet the systemjust

wants

people out

of

the

system

onto thejobs as quickly asthey can.

The

trainingisminimal.In

most

placesthegoalis

getting people

up

to speed forthatjob as quicklyas possible

and

not worrying about

whether

they

have

enough

skills to actually progress inthe job

and go

(3)

Tim

Moore:

We

at

CET

have

industrial advisory boards of employers.

They

are our customers.

Our

other customers are the students.

Our

job is to get

them

together.

What

we're hearing is a little bit of

what

bothgentlemenjusttalked about.Employers

want

soft skills, butthey also

want

folksthathave a

GED

and

theskillsthat

go

along withahighschooldiploma. Just

because

you have

a degree, a piece ofpaper, that doesn't

mean

that

you

have the three R"s.

They

also

want

readinessskills.

They

want computer

skills,

perhaps.

Some

companies have

positions that are introductory

enough

that

you

don'tneed askillssetto

go

intothem.

But

if

you

want

tobeself-sufficient,

and

that

means

earning

$7.50

on up

withbenefits,

you

need

to

have

some

land

of

a skills

setthata place like

CET

and

other

programs can

cover in

about

eight

months.

Then

if

they

have

the skills

and

they lose that

job

or there's a

downturn,

they

can

get anotherjobwith thoseskills.

Schmidt:

Can

you

talkabout

some

of the techniques that

you

have

used

to

tram

and

place people,

and

what

you

think

is

necessary

to

accomplish

that?

With

global

competition

and

technology,

folks

are

going

to

be

left

behind

with

minimum-wage

jobs

at

McDonald's.

Moore:

Well, it's a

very

holistic

approach

thattookthree decadesto develop.

We

do

alotof

work

on

selfesteemfor instance.That's

part ofthebattle.

We're

a fulltime program, 8:30to

4:00,

and

we

runitlikeit'sajob.It'sbasically on-the-jobtraining.

There

are timeclockstopunch,forklifts

to drive,

computers

to use, circuitboards to solder,

etc.

Our

instructors are

from

the private sector.

They've been

there

and

they

know

what

ittakes.

We

have a

GED

program.

We

integrate basic skills into

class. It's verycontextual, so that students can

make

a connection

between

how

to leam,

how

to do

math

and

how

to

measure and weigh

a

box

inorder to ship

it.

We

liketo say, there's one piece of paperthat's

more

important than

a

diploma,

and

that's the

paycheck.

You

have

to work.

You

have

to

make

money.

You

have

to

be

able to

show

up

on time every day,

and

you

also

have

tohave

some

skillsemployers

are interested in.

With

global

competition

and

technology, folks are going to be left behind with

minimum-wage

jobsat

McDonald's.

Iftheycouldget

alittlehigherposition,theycould

make

ten dollars

an

hour

withbenefits.

Schmidt:

Do

you

thinkit'simportintin

your

training

to connect to the business

community, and

how

do

you do

that?

James

Grace:

I'd like to put

my

blush

on

this

by

givingan example.

Back

in

1996

there

was

an

article

thatappearedina

Winston

Salem

paper

reporting that

this

guy had

hired

50

African

Americans

inhis

awning

company.

Of

coursethatgotalot

of

press,

and

italso got alot ofpress six

months

later

when

nobody was

there. Fifty people

had

disappeared off the job.

We

pulled

together

a

small

conference

and

brought

the

employer

and

some

employees

in.

They

had

a

chance

totalk

about

what

they

saw

as the

problems.

The

gentleman

that

owned

the

company

was

really flabbergasted

by some

ofthe challengesthatpeople facedin

getting to thejob.

They

had

to

bethereat6:00,butthebusses didn'tstartrunninguntil7:00.

One

guy

hired

somebody

monthly

topick

him

up.

They

charged

him

$1

00 and

dropped

him

offata bridgethat

was

a mileaway.

To

make

my

point, Ithinkthat

you've

got to

have

some communication and

some

balance if

we're goingtosolve

some

of

theseproblems,

and

we

havenot yetlearned

how

to talk to

one

anotheracross these boundaries

about

what

the

problems

are.

That

goes for race, we're going to

have

to find a

way

in this countryto talk ina race language or something that getsusthere,

because

obviously,we're notgetting there now.

Schmidt:

It

seems

to

me

the transportation for

low-income

people to get

from

their

community

to

where

thejobs arecould

be

areal issue.

Do

you

have

any

ideas about

how

toaddress that?

Grace:

Well,it'sa

problem because most

ofthese low-end jobs startat

odd

hours. People

have

tobe at

work

at4:30inthemorning, so

you

can'texpectpublic transportation to take

up

that need. It's still

an

economic

opportunityfor

somebody.

If

you

gota

van

(4)

pay

maybe

forty

bucks

a

month

to getthere, that'san

economic development

opportunity for

somebody.

Why

isthatnot

happening?

We

had

a demonstration

van

program,

and

it

was

phenomenally

successful,but

you

can't

depend

on

grants

and

handoutsto

do

that.

Somebody

hasto

have

thewherewithaltosay,

"Maybe

I can

make

itdoing this.'"

But

there's

no

sensitivity for

anybody

who

would want

tofinance or fundthat kindofactivity.

Beal:

The

money

tofund transportation is in the county block grants,

and

it

remains

to

be

seen

whether people are going

to puttheir

money

where

their

mouth

is.

college is located. Quite frankly in

North

Carolina thereare a lot

of

places

where

if

you

don'tdrive,

you

don't work.

I think that the microenterprise

development

strategy is one that is going to get looked at,

and

hopefully funded.

We

needtostartoutwith

some

small successes.

When

people get burned,

sometimes

they

back

away

from

things, but I think that

we've had

enough

experience in this statewithmicroenterprise

development

thatthisis averyviable strategy.

It's

not

just

where

the

transportation

is

located,

it's

also

where

the

child

care

is

located

and

where

the

grocery

store

is

located

and where

the

community

college

is

located.

Quite

frankly,

in

North

Carolina

there are

a

lot

of

places

where

if

you

don't

drive,

you

don't

work.

Schmidt:

Let

me

explain

what

those block grants

are. Inthe past, the state

and

the federal

govern-ment

controlled

what

our local counties

could

do

with the cash assistance

program money.

Now

we

have

moved

to a

block

grant

program

forservices for every county.

Every

countyisgoingtobe given a

chunk

of

money

to use for

job

training or for transportation or other kinds ofservices to help

people

move

off therolls

and

into

employment.

Beal: Ican't

emphasize

enough

thatthishasa

bottom

line.

Over

thenext fiveyears, there's a

$302

million federal block grant.

That

money

will lose its value overthenextyears, just

by

inflationalone.

We

arenot goingtoget

any

new

money,

so

we

need

to investthe

money

in strategies that

work.

In

Forsyth

county

they're leasing vehicles towelfarerecipientsforsmall

amounts

a

month

sothatattheend ofthetimethey're on welfare, they will

own

those vehicles. Counties

relyveryheavily

on

volunteertransportation,

and

one of the things

we've

asked

the

Commissioner

of

Insurancetolookatisa Samaritan

law

thatwill

make

volunteers notliablefortransportingrecipientstowork.

It's not just

where

the transportation is located,

it's also

where

the childcare islocated

and where

the grocery store is located

and where

the

community

Rosenfeld: Justto give a very

quick example,

Regional

Technology

Strategies

(my

firm) has a

board

member

who

started a

company

in

Chicago

calledTransport America, that's actually transporting

low-income

peopleto theirjobs

and

to trainingprograms,

and

at

the

same

time providing training

and

teaching

them

how

to start the businesses themselves.

It's

been

extremely

successful.

Leslie

Boney:

Let

me

justmention a

few

things that

employers

seem

to be interested in.

My

job on adailybasis isto talk with employers

and

make

the case for

them

to hire

Work

First participants.

They

have sort ofdifferent

notionsof

what

theycan

and

should do, butthis isa unique timein

North

Carolinahistoryforallthistobe happening. Right

now

in

North

Carolina

we

have

the lowest

unemployment we've had

for

any

number

of years. Inthe Triangle,

we

have

1.9% unemployment.

That

is great

news

for the

economy, and

itis great

news

for

Work

Firstparticipants Itisfrightening

news

for employers, becausetheir question is:

where

does our workforce

come

from?

Where

do

we

findpeople that

we

can

keep?

If

employers

continue to

pay

incredibly

low

wages,

no

one

comes

to

work

forthem.

There

are very

few

people in the Triangle that are paying

minimum

wage

anymore.

Iguessthat's sortof a long

way

of sayingthisisa tune

when

employers

are forced, whether they

want

(5)

work

force, a

group of

peoplethat

maybe

hasnot

had

a great

employment

history. They're sort of forced

into thenotion

of

looking at

Work

Firstparticipants.

Some

of

them

are

going

to

do

itbecauseit'sthe right thing to do; a lot

of

them

are goingto

do

itbecause

they'relookingforpeople

who

theycanhire

who

may

stick

around

foralittlewhile, thatthey

can

give

some

opportunities tointhelongterm.

So

therearemotivated

employers

right

now,

inlargeparts ofthe state.

They're

also willing to

do

things to

make

transportation work.

For

example,

an employer I'm

working

withintheTriadhasshiftsevery 15minutes.

Ifyou'retrying to transport

numbers

of people into

theirworkforce, then

you have

arealtrans-portation

problem

with

this schedule.

Some

people arrive

when

they

can

access trans-portation

and

maybe

they don't start

work

for

two

hours.

What

the

employer's

been

willing to do, in part

because

they're

desperate,

is

clumping

some

shifts.

That

breaks

up

the

way

they

like to

do

their

system,

but

they're

motivated

to

do

it

because

they

want

employees

who

they

can

retain

and

promote.

There

are also

some

employers

who

are motivated

by

a

transportation

tax

credit.

They

will

pay

transportation costs to get

employees

there.

Some

of

them

aredoingit

because

there's

a

taxcreditof

$65

a

month

of

thatcost. Others are doingitbecausethat's

theonly

way

they

can

get

employees

towork. Others are encouraging

employees

to start microenterprises

where

they

would

handle transportationthemselves. Justoneotherthingthat'sgoingon:alotofcounties are realizing that

we

have

technology

now

that can locate

within

every

county

exactly

where

every

workforce

participant lives,

where

every child care opportunityinthe

county

is,

what

the

bus

routes are,

and

what

the

employment

opportunitiesare.

Then

you

can lookatagrid

and

come

to

some

realtransportation decision

about

how

you

createa publictransportation

system

that

may

get

somebody

from where

they live,

to

where

theydrop offtheir childrenfor

day

care,to

where

they

work.

Schmidt:

Even

though

in

North

Carolina

we

do

have

This

is

a

time

when

employers

are

forced,

whether

they

want

to

do

the

right

thing

or

not,

to

look

at

this

nontraditional

work

force,

a

group of

people

that

maybe

has

not

had

a

great

employment

history.

very

low unemployment

in

many

ofourareas,

we

still,

even

now

in this great economy,

have

counties with

double-digit

employment.

We're

likely to see a

recession

at

some

point. If

you're

relying

on

employers toprovide transportation,

where

are they going to

go

when

you

hit a recession?

And

evenin

these counties

today

that still

have

double-digit

unemployment,

how

are

we

goingto

overcome

these issues

and

help thesepeoplestay

employed

or

be

able to

change

jobs evenin downturnsinthe

economy?

Rosenfeld: I think the

government

certainly has a

role insupporting public transportation

and

building

infrastructure.Relatedto that,

we've

been talking aboutmicroenterprises. I

still think that is a long termopportunity.I

know

that

entrepreneurship

was

a

way

to address

unemployment

ten years

ago

when

we

didn't

have

these skill

shortages,

and

it didn't

work

allthatwell.

But

it

can

work

now,

I think,

withtechnology,with

ter-minals in the

home,

if

people

are willing to

work

collaboratively, if

we

can

develop

the

necessary

social ~

infrastructure.

There's lots ofexamples

around

the country of smallgroups ofmicroenterprises

working

collectively

to

produce

some

fairly substantial results, like

'Appalachian

by

Design"in

West

Virginia,

where

40-50

part-time

home

knittersproduce

enough

tosupply large

companies

like Esprit.

So

Ithink there

may

be

some

opportunityif

we

are willing to givepeoplethe entrepreneurialskills atthe

same

time we'retraining

them

for

employment.

Grace: I'm

thinking,

why

aren't

we

doing

any

better

than

we

are doing?

Somehow,

we

just don't getboth sides

of

this equation. Ithink it's

key

that

we

involve these folks that

we

are talking about, these clients,

these

low

income, people

we

putallthelabels on. All thepeoplethat

work

in

my

office

now

arepeoplethat

have been

on

Social Services or received

some

kind ofbenefit.

I'm

heretotell

you

thatthereis

no

support

for

them

moving

forward, for accepting

them,

for

(6)

I sortof

am

vers-frustrated about the "systems"that

we

keeptalkingabout

because

it's stillbeingimposed,

whether

we

likeitornot. In

my

community

itaffects

me

directly

because

welfare reform is gone, so I'll

havetolock

my

door

and

put another lock

on

because peoplearenot going to starveiftheycan steal.

Schmidt: There's people missing notjust

from

around

thistablebut

from around

alotoftables

where

thisis

beingdiscussed,

where

projectsarebeing

worked

out,

and

allkinds ofthings arebeing decided. I

wonder

if

you

have ideas

about

how

we

get the

low income

community

not onlytothetable,butactuallyataskill

levelthatthey

can

feel comfortableparticipating, and

how we

getthebusiness

community

around

the table and bought

mto

their

need

to

work

on

this?

Moore:

In

think

in

most

cases

you need

an

intermediary,likea

community

based

organization or anonprofit.

We

couldcall

on

thepublicsector as well

tomediate.

We

provide part ofthatservice.

We

have

a monthlyindustrialadvisory boardmeeting with about 75 employers

from

acrosstheTriangle

who

represent areal"who's

who"

of

employers

from

large

and

small,

all different sectors

who

come

out

and

meet. I

have

my

students attend as well.

My

students are single

women

withchildren,

and

there are also

some

men

m

my

program.

We

have

a studentcouncil,

and

so they

talk.

And

for the first time I think a lot

of

barriers

come

down.

Some

of

my

employers

are mentors, or they

come

out

and do

seminarsor

mock

interviews or host tours

of

theirfacilities.

You

have

to tell

employers

what

you

want

them

to

do and

how

you can

help

them

to get

what

they need.

And

the

same

thing withthe other customers,

and

then get

them

together.

So

Ithinkithelpstohave an intermediary or bridge

between

the

two

that can

sortoftalkbothlanguages

and

cut

through

alotofthe

stuff. It's

good

business for businessto get involved

inthis.

They

helpus designour curriculum, provide us with

equipment and

find instructors. If

you

give

them

thatlandofrole,thenthe

bottom

lineistheywillhire

your

graduates.

We

have

repeat hireswith

some

major

companies. That's a

good

sign,

and

they are keeping

the folks, because

ABC

company

doesn't

want

them

to

go

down

to

XYZ

company.

So

they'rekeeping our

trainees,ourgraduates,

and

giving

them

pay

increases.

They

may

be goingin

a

$7, $7.50

an

hour, but nottoo long

and

it's $8, $8.50,

$9

an hour.

And now

they're

really startingto be

where

they

can

get a car.

They

can

move

out of public housing into an apartment. Insteadofgiving

somebody

afish,

we've

taught

them

Work

First

Family

Assistance Facts

82,693familiesinNorthCarolina

were

receiving

Work

FirstAssistanceasof

September

1. 1997.

68 percent

of

cases are families

headed by

one parent.

95 percent ofall

Work

Firsthouseholds are led

by

females.

95 percent

of

Work

First adults are

younger

than 45 years ofage.

Approximately

145,000 childrenreceive

Work

First

Family

Assistance.

More

than

50

percentofcases includeonechild; lessthan2percentcontainfiveor

more

children.

50

percentoffamilies

have

received

Work

First

Family

Assistance for 6

months

or less.

The

average

Work

First

Family

Assistance

checkis $218.

Many

Work

First families are working; as of

September

1997, 16percentofthecaseload

was

employed, excludingchild-only cases.

With

the introductionof

Work

First,the

monthly

caseload has decreased

by 27

percent.

(Source:

NC

Division ofSocial Services )

how

to fish sotheycan

go on

fora lifetime.

Boney:

Let

me

mention

sort

of

a larger issuethat's

relatedtothis.

To

alargeextent,thepoliciesofwelfare reform

were

shaped

by

lawmakers

who

were

divorced

from

thefront

lme

problems.

But

the

more

people

you

bringtothetable,the

more

possible solutionsyou're goingto

come

up

with,

and

boy, that'sa frightening

thing.

They

might

actually

come

up

with something

that doesn't involve you.

They

might

come

up

with a solution that says,

you

don'treallyhave aplace here anymore.

They

might

createa

new

structurethatmight lead to

wholesale

downsizing

in the

whole

infrastructure thattreats the

Work

First population.

Work

Firstparticipantsmightactually

go

towork,then

(7)

and

interms of our larger notionofself-preservation that

work

against actually involving the real people that we'retalking about. If

we

can

find a

way

to get

beyond

that

and

actually get

everybody around

the

same

table atthe

same

time, we'll

do

alotbetter

and

we'll

come

up

with alot better solutions.

Beal:

Back

in fall oflast year I think

we

had

nme

forums around

thestate.

The

governor spoke

atalittle

over half

of

them,

and

we

had your

mayors

and your

county

commissioners

and your

business people

and

your

CEOs,

but

we

also

had

at least one

Work

First

participant

on

the panel,

and

we

always have

Work

Firstparticipants intheaudience.

If

you

ask

anybody what

part of the

forum

they got the

most

out

of. it

was

hearing the

Work

First

participants speak.

Iagree withLeslie-1think

we

need

to get the politicians

and

the social

workers

out

of

the

middle

of

it.

and

I think that

we

need

to

create

a

safe

zone

for

these

familiesto

become

involved.

How

much

are

you

really goingto say

about

your

local

department of

socialservices

when

the}'sendout

your check and Medicaid

card?

Ithinkthatthis

may

be

something

that the role

of

government

may

need

tostep

back

abit.

and where

the private sector

can

get

much

more

involved. I think there is a

fear outthere that

we

might

work

ourselves out of a job. Ithinktoacertain extent,the

system

thatcreated welfare has

become

one

ofits victims.

Rosenfeld: Ithink

one

ofthedifficultieswith bringing the private sector

together

is that

they

act too independentlyas individual businesses.

Our

businesses

inthis countryaren'tverywellorganized, so

we

have

companies

that are representative

of

their industry but they don't represent

any

larger industry group.

What's

really

important

is to

somehow

begin

to organize these people

mto

some

kmd

ofa collective entity that

can

begin to address

problems

and

think

about

local

economies

intermsofsocial

good

forthe

communities

and

civic responsibilityIbelieve

we

need

tothink

about

how we

can beginto create the social capital

m

communities

that

would

allow ustoaddress

some

of

these

problems

collectively

Schmidt: We're working on coming up

withsolutions.

I

think

there

is

a

fear

out

there that

we

might

work

ourselves

out

of

a

job.

I

think

to

a

certain

extent,

the

system

that

created

welfare has

become

one

of

its

victims.

yet at the

same

time, there are

low

income

moms

with kids that

have used

up

one

year

of

a

two-year

time limit

and

are goingto be kicked offthe

program

starting

August

1

of

next\ear.

What

are

we

goingto

do

for these people

on August

1

and

thereafter as peopleare

moving

off the

program?

Beal:

From

a verypractical standpoint, the

way

the pohc>- is written

now.

only those individuals

who

are receiving the

most

intensive support services are

on

the

two

yeartime clock.

The

way

it's writtenis that there will

be

a three year period

of

ineligibility, but that ifa local review

board

says so. that family

can

come

back

onto

cash

assistance.

Firstofall. ifI

had

alocalreview

board. I

would

loadit

up

with

my

employers,

and

I

would

really

want

them

to

stand

there

and

tell a

mother

with fourchildren

why

she can't

come

back

on

welfare but they

cant

give her ajob.

From

another standpoint, I

think

probably one of

the

more

profound

things that

was

said

tomght

was

that

we

need

to start

seeing

welfare

reform

as

economic

development.I'venever seen

an

areathat

was

so fraught

with

contention,

and

it's like a lightning rod.

What

I really

hope

we'll

be

able to

move

to as the

two-year

time limit creeps

up

on

us is less

of

a discussion

about

how

this

person

was

justtoo lazy

and

didn't

want

to get

up

and

go

to

work, and

more

of

a discussion of

how

local

economic development

in

communities would

help.

Moore:

We

found

that

without

economic

development

and

job

creation,

which

is actually creatingjobs

by

bringing businesses in

and

offering

them

different incentives

and

packages,

you

can't develop jobs

through

your

graduates.

You

can'tplace folksinjobsthatdon'texist.Tryingto

undo

fortyyears

of something

that

we

got ourselves into

m

a couple of years orfive years is

going

to

be

painful.

We're

not just talking

about

single

moms

here or

men who

are raismg

some

families

on

their

own,

we'retalkingabout kids

and

generations

and

theimpact.If

you

cutwelfare

rolls,theproblem's

gomg

to

pop up somewhere

else.

Maybe

inprisons,

more

money

spent

on

correctional

facilities or

on

this or that. Let's

pay

for it

now

the

(8)

If

I

had

a

local

review

board,

I

would

load

it

up

with

my

employers,

and

I

would

really

want them

to

stand

there

and

tell

a

mother

with

four

children

why

she

can't

come

back

on

welfare but they

can't

give

her

a

job.

right

way

starting with

Smart

Start

programs,

community

colleges,programslike

CET, K-

1_2,put

more

investments there, sothat

companies

will start toget

on

the

bandwagon

too.

They

willrealizeit'snot just a

socialresponsibilityoracivilresponsibility,itjust

makes

good

businesssensefor their

own

preservation.

You've

gotto

have

workers,and you'vegottohavefolks that

make

money

to

buy

yourproducts.

And

you'vegotto live someplace.

Your

CEOs

haveto live someplace.

So

they

want

theircommunitiestobestrong

and

safe.

Grace:

I agree with

what

everybody else has said wholeheartedly.

As

we

go

throughthistwo-yearphase, corporations are stillin the

mode

ofdownsizing

and

laying off people.

That

kind ofbehavior,

what

does that get us?

We're

fighting a real drift here.

We've

gottolookatourmorality

and

theethics,

and

eventhe

spirituality,

and

talk

more

aboutthose kindsofthings

m

this countrythat

we

have, because I don't care

what

we

do, it's

gomg

to boil

down

to

what

we

feel

about each other

Questions

from

the

Audience

Question:

Does

anyone

here realistically thinkthat

we

can

move

82,000 peopleoffourwelfarerollswithin a five year period9

Beal:

Of

the 82,000 families, if

you

looked atthe information

we

have

outside, about 25,000 ofthose are families that

we

call child only.

What

that

means

is that there's a

grandmother

or aunt or

somebody

else taking care ofthechild, so

we

arereallytalking about

60,000

individuals.

What

we've

been doing with

Work

First is

moving

the easiest to

move

first,

hopefullylayingin

some

strategiesthatwillkeep

them

retained in the workforce

We

show

about an

82%

retention rate forthose

who

haveleftfor

employment

so far.

Then

we

takethe

money

that

we

didn't spend payingtheir

monthly

benefits and spenditonthe rest

ofthe caseload

The

difficultyis goingto bethe rest

ofthe caseload:

20%

areestimatedtohave substance

abuse problems, although

that

number

could

be

anywhere

from

30-80%

depending

on

who

you

talk

to,domesticviolenceissues,

no

high school diplomas, borderline mental

and

physical disabilities.

So

even

though

they

may

be fewer,theyareharder

However,

m

terms

of

what

we

predicted the case load

would

be,

we

are alreadv

where

we

thought

we

would be

in

1999.

Boney:

We

now

have an

incentive to concentrate on

one

particularpartofthe population, butifwe're not really addressing the long

term

issues of the

working

poor, then we're

gomg

to fail, because the

same

people are going to get a job that

pays

them

barely

enough

tostay off welfare, thentheir child is

going

to get sick or they're

going

to lose their transportation solution,thenthey'regoingto getright

back

on.

Question:

Should

we

be concerned about building

socialcapital?

Rosenfeld: It'sa hottopic right

now,

thisconceptof building social capital

and

itsimportanceto

economic

development. I thinkit allgets

down

tothe idea that unless

you

organize at a local level,

you

don't

have

the

kmd

of

economy

where

people

can

easily get information

about

thingslikelabormarkets.

That

is,to

create social capital so that there are levels oftrust

among

people

and

among

businesses,

you

have

to create

an environment where

ideas

and

information flow.

Labor markets

work

veryeasilyinareas

where

they've

got

social capital,

where

businesses are mterdependent. In this environment,

you

don't need

very

sophisticated labor

market systems because

everybody

knows

what'savailable,

and

itjustspreads throughfamily, friends,

and

social activities.

A

lot

of

states are

now

developing policies to try to create

these

networks

incertain regions

by

organizingtheir

primary

industries intocouncils that include different

(9)

between

a strong

and

a

weak

regional

economy.

Boney:

To

layer

on

to that,

John

McKnight

is a professoroutof Northwestern

who

talks aboutasset

mapping

inourcommunitiesasa

way

ofbuildingsocial

capital.

He

makes

a very convincing case thatalot

of

what we've

done through

the

way

that

we

have

structured our social

programs

is to

throw

social

programs

atcommunities.

By

doingthat,

we

esiscerate thenatural strengths ofthat community.

We

need

to figure out a

way

to look at

our

communities

in terms of

what

theyhave,

what

their

strengths are.

what

their

leaders

are,

how

to develop those leaders so thatthey thenriseup.

We

can do

that better

by

lookmg

atpositivesrather thannegatives, looking at

assets ratherthandeficits.

Beal:

Can

I say that a different

way

9

The

new

capital is not

money,

it's

information.

What

alotof

welfare

recipients

have

lacked

is

access

to

information.

I'm

very

fearful that the

more

technologytakesovereven,'partof ourlives,the

more

thispopulation is

gomg

tobeleft behind. There'snot

been

much

in our welfare system, I

would

submit, that

encourages

people

to take

advantage

of

information.

We

made

peoplefor sixyearsprove

how-poor

they were. That's

what

ourbusinessisallabout.

We've

neverencouraged peopleto look at

what

they

have

rather than

what

they did not have.

I think we're beginning to gradually turn that battleship around. For example, one ofthe things I