View Full Version : vz.58 full auto conversion

August 4th, 2008, 05:06 AM

Marxist

H e l l o e v e r y o n e , a s I s e a r c h e d s o m e f o r u m s i t a p p e a r s t h a t m any people have the civilian version of this a ssault rifle (for s o m e r e a s o n c a l l e d s u b m a c h i n e g u n - " s a m o p a l") , but I haven't find any way to return it to its original look (well I don't have any firearms) http://vz58.webpark.cz/obrazky/58popis.jpg (its schem e , but in czech). I read that it is semi-autom a t i z e d thanks to a block of iron welded into place of auto parts. This is a czech site with Sa-58 parts I found http://

www.zelenysport.cz/scripts/zbozi.php?KID=14 , are any of them usable? Thanks for your tim e ++++++++++++++

Don't forget to capitalize the letter "I" when referring to yourself - The_Duke

August 6th, 2008, 04:25 AM

486

There is a hole next to the ejector in the upper receiver, which has a sear in it that is needed for F/A operation [also for safe s e m i-auto] in the usa it is rem oved. It m ay be left in in European areas though. The selector for full auto has 2 notches in it, t h e s e m i one has one. I can't find a picture now. If you have the safety sear then you only need the full auto selector, and can create one by cutting a new [second] notch in it. Searching for a FAL, or L1A1 would net tons more results for you.

August 7th, 2008, 09:40 AM

486

S i n c e I h a v e n o e d i t b u t t o n , d i s r e g a r d t h e a b o v e p o s t , y o u s a i d V Z 5 8 a n d S A - 5 8 , i a s s u m ed they were interchangeable and only went from m e m ory. O ne is a AK variant, the other a FAL variant. The SA-58 parts won't fit on your gun.

August 8th, 2008, 08:48 AM

iHME

V Z 5 8 i s I I R C a c o m p letely different gun com p a r e d t o a k - 4 7 , t h e y l o o k t h e s a m e b u t t h e v z 5 8 m a g s d o n ' t f i t t h e a k a n d v i s e versa.

T h e V Z 5 8 h a s i t s o w n m e c h a n i s m thats nothing like AK.

August 8th, 2008, 10:22 AM

festergrump

Thats' not to m ention that the receivers are m a c h i n e d f r o m a c h u n k o f s t e e l r a t h e r t h a n a s t a m p e d p i e c e o f s h e e t m etal like the AKM. Whole different ball of wax, which makes it m uch m ore intense of a 'from scratch' build of the receiver.

VZ receivers can be bought (if you're willing to register it) but the price is much higher than that of an AKM reciever blank. (VZ kits are still very cheap, however, and readily available).

One thing that I always thought was ra ther strange is th at the VZ is allowed in Canuckistan while the AKM is banned, though they outwardly look very similar. :confused:

L o g i n

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T h e E x p l o s i v e s a n d W e a p o n s F o r u m > Military Science > Gunsmithing and Firearm Modificatio n > Simple revolver de sign a k a t h e " M a n u a l R e v o l v e r "

View Full Version : Simple revolver design aka the "Manual Revolver"

O c t o b e r 2 n d , 2 0 0 8 , 0 4 : 0 6 P M

iHME

On the " Hyp othetically how can som eone with lim i t e d t o o l s m a k e a m munition fro m scratch?" thread the idea of a m a n u a l l y rotated revolver cam e u p .

W ell I drew up som e crude prints for it. They are m ainly to show the idea . I e n c o u r a g e m e m b e r s t o m a k e b e t t e r o n e s .

T h e i d e a i s t o c r e a t e a s i m p l e m ulti sh ot capab le firearm.

If one has a very good drill press the cylinder could be bored with it.

I r e c o m m e n d s t u d y i n g J A C O D e s i g n s , t h e y h a v e v e r y s i m ple trig ger system s. And they cou l d b e a d a p t e d t o f i t o u r n e e d s .

Now that I have the thread started I'll draw som e prints.

P l e a se don't crucify m e for m y bad dra wings. I'm no graphic artist. :o

O c t o b e r 4 t h , 2 0 0 8 , 0 9 : 0 5 P M

tomu

Actually, a very good idea. A quite simple design with a the neccassary cylinder locking/indexing m echanism under the barre l. Very sim ple SA-Trigger.

If you are carefully in laying out the cylinder bo rings/cham bers this could be easily done with basic tools.

IIR C there were som e pictures of a hom e m a d e sim ple handturned revolver like this m a d e b y a r u s s i a n g u y s o m e where on the web, unfortunately I can't find the link nor the photos on my PC.

O c t o b e r 8 t h , 2 0 0 8 , 0 7 : 2 7 P M

a3990918

Here is a plan from Paladin Press for a revolver-knife that is, I believe, basically the sam e as you are describing. The cylinder is ro t a t e d b y h a n d a f t e r e a c h s h o t a n d i s o f a s i n g l e a c t i o n d e s i g n . O f c o u r s e t h i s c o u l d b e m o d i f i e d t o a s t a n d a r d h a n d g u n configuration .

http://rapidshare.com /files/152189745/ebook_-_Paladin_Press_Series_on_Improvised_Firearms_-_The_Revolver_Kn ife.pdf N o P a s s :

O c t o b e r 8 t h , 2 0 0 8 , 0 8 : 2 2 P M

Hirudinea

If your want to m ake a revolver with sim ple too l s d o y o u t h i n k i t w o u l d b e p o s s i b l e t o a d a p t a g o o d q u a l i t y " C a p P i s t o l " revo lver to fire low po wer rounds, repla ce the barrel and the cylinder with a barrel and cylin der that can take the pressure, an d d e s i g n s o m t h i n g t o k e e p t h e r o u n d s i n t h e c h a m ber, and the trigger and rotary m e c h a n i s m from t h e c a p p i s t o l M I G H T b e sufficent to work as a real gun. (Or it might blow your hand off, but either way it would do som thing you'ed never forget!)

O c t o b e r 8 t h , 2 0 0 8 , 1 0 : 4 7 P M

Cobalt.45

The problem is, the frame is what ties the cylinder to the barrel. IMHO, b y the tim e you were done you will have basically built the gun from the ground up, anyway.

October 10th , 2008, 02:34 AM

a3990918

S o m e m o r e h o m e m a d e f i r e a r m s plans; Revolvers, Automatics, Single Shot etc etc...

http://rapidshare.com / f i l e s / 1 3 9 1 9 0 8 6 5 / A u t o m atic_and_Concealable_Firearms_Design_Book_VOL .1.rar http://rapidshare.com / f i l e s / 1 3 9 1 9 0 8 6 6 / A u t o m atic_and_Concealable_Firearms_Design_Book_VOL .2.rar http://rapidshare.com / f i l e s / 1 3 9 1 9 0 8 6 7 / A u t o m atic_and_Concealable_Firearms_Design_Book_VOL .3.rar

Password for all 3 is: a3990918

October 10th , 2 0 0 8 , 0 1 : 4 7 P M

iHME

Thank you a3990918 but I already have those. Fun to read but devoid of real instructions. I'll dig m o r e i n t o m a k i n g t h e p r i n t s . I'll also try to m a k e a s c a l e c a r d b o a r d m o d e l t o g e t t h e " f e e l " o f w h a t I ' m aim ing at.

L o g i n

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October 10th , 2 0 0 8 , 0 9 : 1 9 P M

Hirudinea

The problem is, the frame is what ties the cylinder to the barrel. IMHO, b y the tim e you were done you will have basically built the gun from the ground up, anyway.

I suppose so, but the idea was if your going to build a zip gun, then adapting a cap pistol would sim p l y g i v e y o u a r e p e a t i n g weapon for a b o u t t h e s a m e a m ount of effort.

October 13th , 2008, 10:37 AM

TreverSlyFox

If your want to m ake a revolver with sim ple too l s d o y o u t h i n k i t w o u l d b e p o s s i b l e t o a d a p t a g o o d q u a l i t y " C a p P i s t o l " revo lver to fire low po wer rounds, repla ce the barrel and the cylinder with a barrel and cylin der that can take the pressure, an d d e s i g n s o m e t h i n g t o k e e p t h e r o u n d s i n t h e c h a m ber, and the trigger an d rotary m e c h a n i s m from t h e c a p p i s t o l M I G H T b e sufficient to work as a real gun. (Or it m ight blow your h and off, but either way it would do something you'd never forget!)

There are conversion cylinders for som e of the better cap & ball revolvers such as the Ruger Old Army. They're designed for the "Cowboy" low power loads and they cost between $2 00 - $30 0. With the reputation of the R uger I'll bet it will take "full" power loads without a hitch in .45LC.

October 15th , 2 0 0 8 , 0 7 : 1 3 P M

Hirudinea

Do cap and ball revolvers need a licence in the States? (If not that would be the way to go .)

October 15th , 2 0 0 8 , 0 7 : 2 4 P M

festergrump

T h e f e d g o v d o e s n o t c o n s i d e r t h e m to be firearms, so they'll ship right to your door, no FFL required or any kind of licensing . Local laws may differ som ewhat, thoug h, so while you're definitely able to buy one shipped right to you easily, carrying it lega l l y m a y b e p r o b l e m a t i c i n s o m e a r e a s . I I R C , M o s t s t a t e s t e n d t o l o o k a t t h e m a s f i r e a r m s i n r e g a r d s t o c a r r y i n g t h e m on your person.

P.S. It kind of goes without saying, if you already have one revo l v e r i n y o u r p o s s e s s i o n t o u s e a s a m o d e l a n d t h e n e e d e d m achine tools to duplicate parts... you can pum p o u t a s m any com p l e t e d r e v o l v e r s a s y o u d a r e . Y o u d o n ' t h a v e t o b e a n engineer to duplicate what already works well.

The hardest part would be the cylinder IMHO, a nd if you have a m odel cylinder and a good rotary indexing attachm ent for your drillpress, ha lf the battle is already won.

Designing a revolver com pletely from scratch is probably going to be m ostly a pain due to the correct throw of the hand to rotate the cylinder into proper alignment with the barrel I should think, once you finish the cylinder. Lots of trial and error with hand length there with much cussing to follow, I'd im a g i n e . W i t h a d e c e n t m o d e l t o m atch exactly O TOH, how could you go wrong?

The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Gunsmithing and Firearm Modification > Arming The Masses

View Full Version : Arming The Masses

October 19th, 2008, 06:33 AM 3287

As many here likely know, in World War II the United States produced a very crude single-shot pistol, the Liberator, in huge numbers to drop behind enemy lines to arm the subjects of Nazi occupation and give them a fighting chance.

The Israelis armed their people with machine guns manufactured with near-primitive technologies, not even having access to full machine shops in many cases.

In the modern day, we've better technology and more available materials for such a task, making the effectiveness greater and the cost lower.

What sort of firearm design would allow for a concealable, reliable, effective and hopefully more ergonomic modern Liberator? Consider that the national military probably would not do something like this again, and so it would have to be a private endeavor.

October 19th, 2008, 10:00 AM Joxer

Would you trust your life to a cheaply made firearm?

There are any number of inexpensive and more effective firearms than a cheap POS "liberator" type pistol. If you want to have hand-out weapons, SKS's and Mosin Nagants, Mausers, etc. are inexpensive and more effective.

We dont need to arm the masses. The masses are alread armed. We need people that will fight with the arms they already have.

October 19th, 2008, 04:42 PM 3287

Many places around the U.S. are disarmed. California, large cities across the span, the entire northeast.

In particular I'm considering a handgun-style armament, since that would be most useful in a personal-defense context. I'm, unfortunately, too skeptical to believe that anything better can be hoped for. People won't want to fight a war.

To answer your question, I'd trust my life to a cheap handgun when facing someone armed before I'd trust my life to my bare hands.

October 19th, 2008, 05:35 PM rangegal

I think a repeating air rifle similar to the ones used by napoleons troops would be a good "liberator" since they are not true firearms and therefore are not restricted like firearms are... at least in America, land of some of the free-est people left... for now. For another matter nobody will ever be able to control the ammo since it's just air and lead. What are they going to do? Put a tax on fishing weights and air compressors? Once you have a bullet mold and an air pump your all set.

http://www.beemans.net/Austrian%20airguns.htm

Big bore air rifles can be pretty effective, especially since they have zero muzzle flash and a reduced report compared to firearms. Those old Austrian air rifles could put about 600-800 fps into a ~.40 cal bullet, not bad considering it runs on air, and it was invented 200 years ago.

Heres a reinvented version made by an Austrian bicycle maker during WW2 to fight then Nazi's. http://www.beemans.net/images/RA5--Austrian-Partisan-Airg.jpg

Those San-Yang big bore hunting air rifles are pretty sick too, although quite expensive. http://www.airgundepot.com/big-bore-article.html

And then theres www.fullyautomaticairgun.com, too bad thats only .22 cal. It gives you an idea what kind of things can be done with CO2 though.

Another thing to look to for inspiration would be the new propane powered paint ball gun by Tippman. Would a "gun" that runs on propane be considered a "firearm" or would it just be another "air gun". I think that's where the best idea's for a powerful freedom fighting gun will be found. BUT BACK OFF, it's my idea.

One way or another, I think non-firearm weapons would offer great possibilities for a "liberator". Of course, theres just no substitute for those of you that already own full auto assault rifles.

October 19th, 2008, 05:36 PM festergrump

People won't want to fight a war.

I'd have to agree with you on that statement. If I had to guess, less than 25% of the people who ARE armed would likely never use them in warfare against an oppressive government, regardless of whether they put "MOLONE LABE" in their sigline or not. :rolleyes:

Even Commyfornians are not totally disarmed yet, though, nor are those in the NE section of the USSA, yet. It's those who have a hard time getting them legally that have a better appreciation for them, I think.

In the event that people will fight and have no gun with which to do so, IMHO the best thing to arm them with would be slam- fire shotguns. The mass production capabilities are the best around since the weapon is so piss-poor simple to find parts for on the scrounge and to put together in reliable working order: Two lengths of steel tubing (which one slides into another freely), an endcap, a screw or nail as a firing pin, and whatever you can make a few pistol grips with. One man should be able to make several dozens a day, honestly.

Even old shotgun husks can be reloaded relatively easily if ammo even dries up (read: no longer allowed for civilians to possess). "Strike-anywhere" match head primers, BP, paper wadding, and use whatever you like for shot (blunderbuss style).

October 19th, 2008, 06:05 PM 3287

Well, my asking serves two purposes:

One, in the event that whichever Marxist takes office in January decides to try to disarm people, I want to monkeywrench that fucker into an ulcer-driven early grave. I'd be happy to stand in a tyrant's way.

Two, I'm a firm believer in the philosophy that an armed society is a polite society. I think the only way to be free is to be well-armed - and I don't mean in the sense of the number of arms versus the number of people, but in terms of the proliferation of arms. I'd like to see, as author L. Neil Smith puts it, "every man, woman, and responsible child" armed in some way. If I can do my part in making it happen, I will truly feel like I contributed something of worth to society.

October 19th, 2008, 07:58 PM Joxer

Many places around the U.S. are disarmed. California, large cities across the span, the entire northeast. They aren't disarmed. Not yet, anyway.

You can search out Lutys' improvised weapons and improvised ammo. It's here somewhere, because I downloaded it. Check the rapidshare links thread.

There are plans for the Caselman Air machine gun here too. IIRC it uses .32 bullets. It would be a very ambitious project though.

I look at it this way. Time is money. I'd personally rather buy a weapon than build one. But having this info available is a Good Thing.

If I had to guess, less than 25% of the people who ARE armed would likely never use them in warfare against an oppressive government,

???

I assume you mean < 25% would use them. OK, that is still a very large number. I'd be thrilled if 10% showed up. In my opinion, even 1% could get the job done.

October 19th, 2008, 08:36 PM 3287

Revolution is a messy thing, and rarely pleasing in its outcome. I am more concerned with improving society by helping good old Joe the Plumber, since he seems to be the blue-collar star-of-the-moment, protect himself when the law would have had him murdered.

October 19th, 2008, 08:39 PM festergrump

Yeah, Joxer, that's what I meant. I also believe you that 1% could do the job with good communication (within and without those laying life down for liberty). In fact, a truthful form of media to the people is probably every bit as important as weapons in such a war. A civilian peoples who think YOU are the "bad guy" for resisting the government will always opt for your sellout, and freedom can never win. But that's a point all it's own. 10% armed would be much better than 1%, and everyone I see online with MOLON LABE in their sigline... even better than that. I think I will NOT count on those people, however, judging by their many liberal idealisms and thoughts put to posts on forums elsewhere.

"An armed society is a polite society". I've held that same opinion for many, many years now. :) The thing is, it has to be common knowledge that the society is well armed for this to work as well as it could, as in legally armed with a majority (or unknown percentage) that be so armed always. What you seem to be talking about is a different matter altogether, what with the Liberator pistol's origin and "standing in a tyrant's way" mentioned.

I offered the idea of the slam-fire shotgun because it meets the criteria presented in the OP. The same would pretty much apply for just about any zipgun type contraption you could think of. Build the weapon around whatever ammo you might have on hand, or alternatively, whatever you might take off the end recipient of such a weapon after he/she has been rendered "safe". (dead).

Several copies of Zips, Pipes, and Pens are floating about the internet (and the FTP, IIRC). There's a pretty good source of ideas, though you'll have to improvise just a bit. There are no plans in the book that I remember. But... you'll only need to use what weapon you make once to acquire a better weapon and ammo, right? The choice of targets is probably more important than most factors of the original weapon itself.

Look to prison as a good idea of how just people who are so "strictly forbidden" to have weapons make or obtain them, yet have them they do. Prison is the most "safe" (:rolleyes:) society you'll ever see with absolute and total "control" over what the population is allowed or disallowed. Yet every prison is literally riddled with firearms and other weapons. That's all the proof anyone should need that making such things "illegal" does absolutely nothing to those that want or need them, for protection or otherwise, though the antis continue with their insane ideas that banning something makes it vanish from the world forever. I rest fairly well at night knowing that no matter what they do to us we will be able to counteract with some ingenuity and guts. It's the latter many cannot seem to find no matter how hard they look these days...

On somewhat of an aside, preventative medicine would be in order here at this point, anyway. Buy what you can while you can and continue to form ideas about what to do when you can't. BP revolvers ship right to your door in the USSA (as of now) and there's no restriction on them whatsoever within the fedgov regulations. (local regs may differ legally, but having them shipped isn't a problem). Same with any BP gun, inline rifle, rock-lock, percussion lock, etc.

Buy reloading supplies in abundance (ships to your door in the US) and brass or hulls, various chems and powders, etc. He who is prepared is better off than he who hasn't even given the slightest thought towards a future without (which is pretty much 99% of the sheeple, I'm afraid).

October 20th, 2008, 05:18 AM 3287

I'm certain that they are restricted in my locale.

That's another part of my curiosity. I can acquire rifles and shotguns, but as it stands, I can not acquire handguns.

October 23rd, 2008, 06:27 AM Alexires

Just remember that you guys aren't the only ones in this mess. There are other countries out there in the world, and a lot of the "civilised" ones are not armed. So don't just reject an idea because you could buy something better: Many of us can't do that.

October 23rd, 2008, 04:24 PM -=HeX=-

Ah... I have an idea for a weapon that is one shot, mass produced. Get some steel tubing, a projectile to fit, an igniter, strong

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